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The Negative Side of Using An 180 Degree Thermostat?

wedg2go

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What harm would I be doing to my 440 SP if I used 180 degree thermostat over a 195? It doesn't overheat and stays right on 195, but starts to act "Funky" at operating temp. Meaning, like most 440 SP the crap they call premium gas goes to vapor. Can cooler be doable for these engines?

BTW - I run this ride in very thin air!
 

fasjac

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as I’ve mentioned before, I run a 160* in the summer here in central Arkansas. Just last week we had 95-97 real temp with very high humidity. Feels like 105.
It’s a 500 stroker SP. this is not popular with a lot of people but, I think it’s because we’re always talking about tuning a factory 440 6 pack. Mine is somewhat radical but street friendly.
min running 190-195 just cruising. Sometimes in stop and go traffic it will get to 205. It works for mine.
The six pack is stock with exception of 64 jets in the center carb.
 

toolmanmike

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No downside to running a 180° stat. If your cooling system is in good shape it will be perfect. If you re overheating, there are other issues that a thermostat won't fix.
 

fasjac

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What harm would I be doing to my 440 SP if I used 180 degree thermostat over a 195? It doesn't overheat and stays right on 195, but starts to act "Funky" at operating temp. Meaning, like most 440 SP the crap they call premium gas goes to vapor. Can cooler be doable for these engines?

BTW - I run this ride in very thin air!
I’m not sure how altitude will affect the cooling system but, carb retune is probably a must from lower US to like Colorado etc.
 

wedg2go

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I agree! Tuning a six pack can be a little bit of a mystery. More so when you're at 8000'.

I did some "Real Research," this past year and broke out the slide rule to determine -
1.) What the majority of everyone else was running on their jetting for both the inboards and outboards at 2500' or lower.
2.) Subtracted one jet size per 2000' in elevation.
and
3.) Determined vac at this elevation so to make the necessary selection on the power valve.
Conclusion: I installed a pair of 60 jets on the inboard and staggered jetting on the outs. No detonation. No pop. No hesitation. No overheating. All 600 (minus a few at this elevation) working like a charm!
I am going to drop my power valve down a notch, this winter, to a 2.5 since I'm pulling a 5 on the vac gauge.
Another thing about my research is the number of misnomers that are out there. Scary if you know a few things about carbs. Which, I'm sure, makes the six pack a little unpopular with the people. Meh!

Ok! Back to my main question - since I'm back from my Sunday drive and like my puter more than some dinky smart phone - thermostats! Love em or hate em, you got to have em. The thing that is screwed up in my head was the builder's last word to me as the ink was drying on the check - "Be sure to run a 195 stat." I jump on the net and read that most all my 440 brothers and sisters are running a 195 stat. It's like some sort of religion! As I mentioned before, "My ride doesn't over heat." Thankfully! But once it hits 195 (mechnical gauge) and goes another, Mmmmmmm-mmmmm- 30 to 50 miles, the fuel line gets hot, the cheap ethanol fuel perks and then I have to sit and wait it out - With a few people stopping and asking if I need help and adding "What a beautiful car!" Really? I find it embarrassing that it's not running!!!
So!
The only thing, I am getting out of this, is to run a cooler engine (Other than installing a fuel line insulator). Just want to make sure - with the echos of builder and all those 440 gurus - that I'm not screwing things up by running a 180 stat. Namely, premature wear on the sliding parts (or anything else I'm blind to).

That's it!

Thanks!
 

fasjac

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I get what you’re saying. Just one thing, please don’t run ethanol in your fuel. There’s an interesting experiment/study a guy did on YouTube over like a 9 month period. Watch it if you can. I don’t even use fuel with ethanol in my mowers or any other small engine.
I’m not sure about altitude any fuel lines getting hot but, the insulation seems right. Never had that problem.
Good luck wedg2go
 

wedg2go

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Thanks fasjac!

Yeah, ethanol is fairly common year round any more. LOL! Remember when we were told that it's only an additive for winter. What a joke!

There is one station, close to me, that pumps out zip ethanol on their premium. I use it when I can, but when on the road it becomes a different story. I have an app showing the stations sans the winter only crap, but sometimes one needs to improvise...Unfortunately!

Which reminds me, someday, somewhere, 5 gallons of AV fuel mixed in. That will strictly be for having a little fun on the side!
 

Cuda Hunter

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I run a 180. 400 BB.
We only have one location in this county to get non ethanol gas. That's a tough one really.
Are you running a mechanical fuel pump? In this elevation I have changed my mechanical pump to an electric pump and cured the overheating issue on multiple motors.
 

fasjac

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Thanks fasjac!

Yeah, ethanol is fairly common year round any more. LOL! Remember when we were told that it's only an additive for winter. What a joke!
There is one station, close to me, that pumps out zip ethanol on their premium. I use it when I can, but when on the road it becomes a different story. I have an app showing the stations sans the winter only crap, but sometimes one needs to improvise...Unfortunately!

Which reminds me, someday, somewhere, 5 gallons of AV fuel mixed in. That will strictly be for having a little fun on the side!
Yep, I run 5 gal of 93 ethanol free with 5 gal of av 100. The set up I have loves it.
 

fasjac

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I run a 180. 400 BB.
We only have one location in this county to get non ethanol gas. That's a tough one really.
Are you running a mechanical fuel pump? In this elevation I have changed my mechanical pump to an electric pump and cured the overheating issue on multiple motors.
For what it worth, I’m using a Carter mechanical pump. No issues overheating in mid summer.
 

fasjac

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Thanks fasjac!

Yeah, ethanol is fairly common year round any more. LOL! Remember when we were told that it's only an additive for winter. What a joke!

There is one station, close to me, that pumps out zip ethanol on their premium. I use it when I can, but when on the road it becomes a different story. I have an app showing the stations sans the winter only crap, but sometimes one needs to improvise...Unfortunately!

Which reminds me, someday, somewhere, 5 gallons of AV fuel mixed in. That will strictly be for having a little fun on the side!
I do remember! And I can tell you working as a parts manager at a dealership, we over 500,000 vehicles involved in a recall of fuel pumps. Hmm
Just saying
 

DetMatt1

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I run nothing but the 10% ethanol in my cars, no choice really. I do add at least 1 oz. of marine 2 cycle oil per every 5 gallons of gas and have been for years and literally 10’s of thousands of miles and I stopped having ethanol related fuel issues immediately upon doing so.
 

toolmanmike

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I run nothing but the 10% ethanol in my cars, no choice really. I do add at least 1 oz. of marine 2 cycle oil per every 5 gallons of gas and have been for years and literally 10’s of thousands of miles and I stopped having ethanol related fuel issues immediately upon doing so.
A little ATF works as well.
 

wedg2go

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I run nothing but the 10% ethanol in my cars, no choice really. I do add at least 1 oz. of marine 2 cycle oil per every 5 gallons of gas and have been for years and literally 10’s of thousands of miles and I stopped having ethanol related fuel issues immediately upon doing so.

Interesting.
So is there a possibility the oil could smooth things out with vapor locking (as well) or is this a hot fuel line issue?
 

fasjac

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I run nothing but the 10% ethanol in my cars, no choice really. I do add at least 1 oz. of marine 2 cycle oil per every 5 gallons of gas and have been for years and literally 10’s of thousands of miles and I stopped having ethanol related fuel issues immediately upon doing so.
I've never heard of that but, apparently it works well. Really never thought about it. We have always had a choice around here.
Good info!
 

wedg2go

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I run a 180. 400 BB.
We only have one location in this county to get non ethanol gas. That's a tough one really.
Are you running a mechanical fuel pump? In this elevation I have changed my mechanical pump to an electric pump and cured the overheating issue on multiple motors.

It's a 6 psi regulated mechanical pump with less than 2000 miles on it (still breaking-in the drive line from the build).

I thought about adding an electric pump over the installed mechanical pump. Two items of contention is stopping me however.
1. I would need to add a regulator. Which, from what I have been reading can be a problem in itself (bad, leaky gauges).
2. Currently, I run a vacuum pump for the brakes. Adding an electric fuel pump with more bzzzzzt back there? I don't Know...
 

toolmanmike

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It's a 6 psi regulated mechanical pump with less than 2000 miles on it (still breaking-in the drive line from the build).

I thought about adding an electric pump over the installed mechanical pump. Two items of contention is stopping me however.
1. I would need to add a regulator. Which, from what I have been reading can be a problem in itself (bad, leaky gauges).
2. Currently, I run a vacuum pump for the brakes. Adding an electric fuel pump with more bzzzzzt back there? I don't Know...
What is your build. You don't need a electric pump unless you are racing, have big cubes to feed an/or dual carbs, or you have fuel injection. And, you should always check fuel pressure and regulate it. Edelbrock carbs don't like much more than 5#. Holley's can tolerate 6 or 7 before they bleed over and cause issues. A return fuel system with a simple filter and carb insulator gaskets can really help with vapor lock and fuel evaporation issues.
 

wedg2go

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I agree with you toolman. No racing. It's all show-n-go. Oddly, the Six Pack Holleys warm up, but hot? I would say they're not hot. The fuel line is another story (I ordered a insulator). Will be here in a few days. The regulator concerns me with all the personal/on-line stories I hear. Not saying every single gauge will go bad and leak fuel, but it's still concerning (I was in one car fire. That was enough).


BTW - It's running with insulator gaskets. Which, I believe, is the reason the carbs stay within reason to the touch when they warm-up.
 

toolmanmike

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I agree with you toolman. No racing. It's all show-n-go. Oddly, the Six Pack Holleys warm up, but hot? I would say they're not hot. The fuel line is another story (I ordered a insulator). Will be here in a few days. The regulator concerns me with all the personal/on-line stories I hear. Not saying every single gauge will go bad and leak fuel, but it's still concerning (I was in one car fire. That was enough).


BTW - It's running with insulator gaskets. Which, I believe, is the reason the carbs stay within reason to the touch when they warm-up.
Hot soak is a big issue. (when the engine is shut off and the carbs soak up underhood and engine heat). The fuel boils (at a very low temp) and vaporizes. There aren't too many fuel problems when the engine is running. Edelbrock carbs seem to be bothered more than Holleys. The fuel bowls are fairly small and are down inside the body of the carb and are in the baseplate so to speak.
 
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toolmanmike

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I agree with you toolman. No racing. It's all show-n-go. Oddly, the Six Pack Holleys warm up, but hot? I would say they're not hot. The fuel line is another story (I ordered a insulator). Will be here in a few days. The regulator concerns me with all the personal/on-line stories I hear. Not saying every single gauge will go bad and leak fuel, but it's still concerning (I was in one car fire. That was enough).


BTW - It's running with insulator gaskets. Which, I believe, is the reason the carbs stay within reason to the touch when they warm-up.


Just for reference, pure ethanol boils at 173.1°
 
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