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Ignition Upgrade Options

doubleyellow

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1970 Challenger 440.

Want to upgrade ignition. Car for street use. Will be about 425 HP. Want reliable upgrade from points.

Any feedback on the Pertronix 1, 2, or 3 systems?

Do Not want to have the 71 electronic box, or any other ignition module box showing in the engine bay. Don't mind if the Distributor/Coil is new technology.

Confusing, so recommendations appreciated.
 

DetMatt1

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I’ve been using Pertronix I for 20k troublefree miles on my Imperial and couldn’t be happier but that’s probably closer to 350 or maybe 375 horse at best since I rebuilt the top end. I have heard about guys having issues with the other Pertronix models.
 

Adam

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The Mopar electronic ignition is an excellent kit, and parts are available everywhere. You can hide the electronic module on the bottom of the battery tray, put black shrink tubing over the harness and run the wires with the others from the battery area to the firewall... You can bag/keep the original unit in case you ever want to switch back (you won’t).

The Pertronix will also work (I am putting one in a 42 Dodge Carryall that I am working on) I just don’t know how good they are in a performance application. ie, steady spark at high rpm. In a 47 year old dist housing there is bound to be shaft bushing wear & vac/mech advance problems. Maybe someone here has experience with it..
 

Don Gould

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Reliable upgrade from points is a great Idea!
*The Pertronix Ignitor (1) is an upgrade from points but not really designed for a performance application.
*The Pertronix Ignitor 2 is a step up but lacks some features that should be considered for a performance application normally it's used to trigger a multi spark CD Ignition like a Good Daytona Sensors CD Box which is probably over kill and not needed for a street car.
*The Pertronix 3 is a true performance upgrade with Multi spark and rev limiter as well as other features but is not available for a Mopar Stock appearing distributor.
*The we get into all the so called MP Distributors and Boxes which are just Chinese copies painted orange and almost none have the adjustable timing limiters. The quality leaves a lot to be desired and the boxes have a huge slew rate (1.4 Millisecond or more) which will retard the timing by 1 to 1.5* per 1000 RPM and steal the power you built into your project.
*Today's pump gas is low octane and loaded with additives, ethanol, Injector cleaners, fuel pump lubricants and a dozen more probably all designed to burn in a very lean and very hot environment to achieve fuel economy not HP.

I think that everyone will agree that fuel is not going to get any better so we need to have a tune-up and ignition system capable of burning what's available at the pump as efficiently as possible. We have to get away from 1960's transistor technology and utilize components from this century. Anything with transistors is going to be slow and cause the timing to retard and drop output to the plugs which is needed as RPM and cylinder pressures increase.

The HRR688 Ignition box use a E-Prom with a 800 Nano-second Slew rate which is electronically calculated to about .02* timing retard at 7000 RPM with virtually no voltage output drop. Has a externally adjustable built in REV Limiter, start sensor technology, Adaptive dwell, LED self diagnostic system and a 5 Year Warranty, best warranty of any ignition system you can purchase. It eliminates the troublesome Ballast resistor and the 2 Megabyte EPROM memory controller is manufactured here in the Northwestern USA and not a knock off Chinese copy it's then programmed/burned to run with optimum efficiently with a common Pertronix coil available at big box outlets throughout the world.

A good quality Mopar stock appearing distributor made by the Robert Bosch company with the J685S limiter plate kit installed will give you accurate and dependable timing events when set up correctly and will burn this camel spit fuel as efficiently as possible in these old motors and maximize the HP potential and longevity of your engine. A bad tuneup will shorten the life of your engine probably quicker than anything else. You can search these part numbers on eBay for more details or visit FBO Ignition on the web.
We also have a 9 foot long Mopar electronic ignition wiring harness available so you can tuck the box away out of sight.


Quote from MRL Performance:
We have been running them as well. Dyno tested one on a 340 for a member here and it made more (3 HP) power than a MSD 6AL. Also have some running in race engines as well as street, everyone reports back very positive results. Better starting, smoother running and much better throttle response. All these are real life driving in the car reports back to me.

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Steve340

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I have used the Ignitor 3 a few times and no problems with anything yet.
I use their coil and remove any ballast resistors to give full 12 volts to the coil.
 

Don Gould

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I should add, sorry I got distracted...The Ignitor 2 uses a .62 OHM Coil 45011 coil and the Ignitor 3 uses a 44011 .32 ohm coil

All run with no ballast at full battery voltage.

You are correct in setting them up that way Steve340

We have sold hundreds of the modules, installed 100's of the modules and even more of their Billet Distributors with very few issues.

We also now offer a Pertronix as cast stock appearing SB Mopar distributor with the Ignitor 3 Module and vacuum advance that we've had good luck with. All of them lack in performance until we curve them properly.

The Billet distributors use that goofy copper strap restraint system for the mechanical advance, we chuck that in the trash, disassemble and machine the advance plate to the degrees of advance we want and install a bushing on the pin... Perfect set up!

IMO the HRR688 is the ultimate way to go with one of our Bosch made distributors all set up and ready to drop in. As good as Pertronix is we have 10:1 ratio of issues with between the PTX and the HRR688 System.
 

Avalanche

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I use the HRR688 system and it works great. I did have the Petronix distributer fail with a couple weeks oF having installed. They quickly took the old distributer back and sent me a new one.
Been running great ever since.
 

Don Gould

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That's good that they took care of you, nobody's perfect everybody has failures no matter how good you are, one may get past the goalie .... It's how well you look after the issue that's really important.
 

71RT383

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***As Steve340 said :
"I have used the Ignitor 3 a few times and no problems with anything yet.
I use their coil and remove any ballast resistors to give full 12 volts to the coil." *******.

I ordered mine with a jumper wire for the ballast resistor.
4secondsflat/fbo systems offer a jumper wire for the ballast resistor if you want to maintain a stock look and will get the 12volts as well.
 

71RT383

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Hey Don, glad you joined, and thank you for help with my system!
When you get a chance head over to the Welcome Wagon section and introduce yourself, your experience and knowledge will help many FEBO members.
 

Don Gould

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Actually been on this board for years just couldn't remember my log-in so rejoined
 

doubleyellow

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Thanks guys. Complicated subject for mechanical geeks. Nothing worse than fighting an electrical bug!!
 

Don Gould

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Interesting article from TTAC "The Truth About Cars" Looks like were all in the right hobby....

Hagerty suggests that collectors take a look at some of Mopar’s other famous ilk, too. When the “financial flexibility” of Boomers took a hit in 2008, muscle car prices took one right to the groin. Still unrecovered, you can pick up some of the most sought-after vintage American iron for a lot less than before. Good condition 1971-1972 Dodge Challengers can be had for $18,300 with a mid-range 318-cubic-inch V8. 1968-1970 Dodge Chargers are also on the rise. Modest examples can be found for $26,100, with the expectation that the value should only increase over the coming years. Base models with automatic transmissions should drive that price, and overall desirability, down. Similarly, anything original with an R/T badge or the right paint scheme can dramatically raise a vehicle’s value.

However, if you have gobs of money to spend and are a Mopar loyalist, why not invest $233,000 into a 1970 Plymouth Superbird? While they can be found for less, spending more for a pristine and complete unit will save you from hunting for expensive rare parts and place you in a better position once you decide to auction it off. Classic Chryslers, Dodges, and Plymouths are all appreciating more swiftly than the other domestic badges and this is one example you might be able to flip for a colossal profit in only a few years.
 

340challconvert

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Don G. Nice review of ignition options!

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Matt

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I am going to run a vertex magneto in my 440 it will burn about anything and it’s a one wire deal
 
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