Replacing Sheet Metal - Measurements????

[DA4AD]

I'm Fixing up a damaged 1970 Cuda.
It was hit on the drivers side lightly, I plan on replacing the parts instead of trying to straighten them out. Basically I need to replace the following;
- Drivers A pillar.
- Drivers door mount area (below A pillar).
- Drivers door rear lock jam area.
- Drivers rocker panel.
- Drivers rear quarter.
- Repair drivers side roof where it meets the A pillar
Are there drawings or dimensions I can get somewheres or do I just start with the rear quarter panel and work forwards?
What I'm concerned with is the front windshield fitting and the drivers side door, front fender and hood fitting alignment.
Any input would be appreciated.

Moderators may want to move this to the Body Shop section....OOPS!

 

[DA4AD]

Pictures

Here's a few pictures so you can get an idea of what I'm fixin'

 

[moparleo]

Hit lightly ?? Looks like you need to get the car pulled at a frame shop. No home job here. Remember that the whole car bends, not just the obvious parts. The subframe must be squared before you bother replacing the sheet metal attached to it. Like hitting a brick wall with a truck and just replacing the broken bricks. The whole section of wall will be out of line.

 

[DA4AD]

The frame has been checked and is straight.
Time to get to the sheet metal. After what I've seen some people fix, this is nothing!

 

[ramenth]

The frame has been checked and is straight.
Time to get to the sheet metal. After what I've seen some people fix, this is nothing!

Leo's right about getting it to a frame shop. It's not about the frame, not from where I'm sitting, it's really about making sure the damaged structure is straight before hanging sheet metal. It might only take a few hours and a good frame man can square things up from measurements he has to work without needing the "required" measurements.

I've done a lot of cowl hits in my life, a lot of them looking like this. If the inner structure is repaired with a pull, then it'll make hanging sheet metal a lot easier. A good frame man, making the right pull, should be able to bring the base of a pillar back where to it belongs, making your job of cutting in a new one, a lot easier, too.

 

[DetMatt1]

Get all the parts on hand and start the fun! I think you may need a roof too, it looks pretty bad in the pics and there's a lot going on with the proper fit ment of all the glass and trim. I would have to take a closer look at it in person to say for sure but I think I'd leave the quarter on for now and start with the A-pillar and the surrounding parts, that looks to be the worst of it.

 

[DA4AD]

Pictures are old, the car has been to the frame shop already.
What I'm asking for are some dimensions or drawings for reference. Surely somebody has something or a download of some type!

 

[ramenth]

Pictures are old, the car has been to the frame shop already.
What I'm asking for are some dimensions or drawings for reference. Surely somebody has something or a download of some type!

Cool.

If you give me a little while I can get out to my Barracuda and take some measurements. It might take a few days as I'm tired of wading through the snow.

 

[Adam]

I would get the replacement parts to mock up before finish welding. When I replaced my firewall and wiper cowl I used an old windshield to check the fit. You will need to do this for sure with the A-pillar; probably a good idea with the rocker and door support.
Besides, you are going to have to buy a door, fender, windshield, ect anyway...

Also, looking at those photos you may need to remove the wiper cowl and fix the rust growing on the firewall. It is not that hard considering how far apart it already is... Check out pics 11 thru 29 in my album.

http://ImageEvent.com/adamell/wiperparts

 

[DA4AD]

Love the album, hopefully I can get to that point by the end of summer.
Cheers

 

[DA4AD]

Can you give me a little more info on the acid wash and electrolytically de-rusted process?

 

[Adam]

Electrical de-rusting.

Can you give me a little more info on the acid wash and electrolytically de-rusted process?

I used a process like the one one this website: http://www.instructables.com/id/Electrolytic-Rust-Removal-aka-Magic/
I couldn't find the Washing Soda so I used Soda Ash from a pool supply store... Home Depot has it too. I did the door in a large plastic trash can, one half at a time. I have also used a hard plastic kiddie pool. The electrical process is very good at getting into tight spots or small parts you don't want to sand blast.

On the roof supports and such I used Phosphoric acid to convert the rust to an inert state. It is commonly sold as a metal cleaner, like Ospho. Usually these products leave a sticky residue and call for rinsing; I always get flash rusting after that, so I don't rinse. Instead after a full strength application I wipe it down with a very diluted solution. Then you prime over that when fully dry.

 

[4404spd]

AMD makes about everything you need, I would get the parts you need gathered up and start drilling out spot welds. All the new parts will need to be fitted and mocked up before welding. If the car has been to the frame shop and checked that's all you need at this point to get going on the repairs. Every part has a home where it goes and it and its like a big jigsaw puzzle putting it back together but its not a bad job. What you have to do on this car is my favorite part of doing body work. Good luck!

 

[DA4AD]

I would get the replacement parts to mock up before finish welding. When I replaced my firewall and wiper cowl I used an old windshield to check the fit. You will need to do this for sure with the A-pillar; probably a good idea with the rocker and door support.
Besides, you are going to have to buy a door, fender, windshield, ect anyway...

Also, looking at those photos you may need to remove the wiper cowl and fix the rust growing on the firewall. It is not that hard considering how far apart it already is... Check out pics 11 thru 29 in my album.

http://ImageEvent.com/adamell/wiperparts

I was just looking through your album AGAIN, how did you determine where to remount the front inner fenders to the fire wall? the only dimension you could have taken would have been the width between the inner fenders. I don't see any inner fender mounting tabs on the new firewall in the pictures.
I am afraid I may have to replace the firewall as well!

 

[ramenth]

I was just looking through your album AGAIN, how did you determine where to remount the front inner fenders to the fire wall?

By measuring squares.

http://www.forebodiesonly.com/forum/showthread.php?774-Front-Frame-Specs

 

[Adam]

I never dismounted the inner fenders. They remained welded to the core support and frame rails and were pretty stout. I only removed the small bracket between the inner fender and firewall, then made sure it was square. Pic 39 shows the bracket back in place.

The firewall really wasn't that bad, just get a quality spot weld cutter and drill. An afternoon, a 6 pack, and 200 spot welds later, its out...

 

[DA4AD]

By measuring squares.

http://www.forebodiesonly.com/forum/showthread.php?774-Front-Frame-Specs

That's the kind of measurements I need except for a 1970 cuda.
Are the factory measurement's on a drawing or the service manual somewhere? I would like the exact measurements instead of what somebody measured, If I use the wrong measurement the frame rails could be tilted up or down although being square.

 

[DA4AD]

1970 Barracuda Body Measurements

OK, so I'm back on this project again.
I am currently mounting the frame to the floor with 3/4" concrete inserts drilled in the floor and supporting the car with 3/4" rod to level the body with a laser before I remove the roof and structure.
Front and rear sub frames will be supported with four anchors each,located at A, X-6 & D.
While is was under the car i decided to confirm my frame measurements, the only one that does not make sense is "D". I measure 18-3/4" when the car is level as opposed to the 15-7/16 as shown on the following chart.
Can someone confirm this?

 

[DA4AD]

Body Measurements

I also bought two bodies (1- Barracuda & 1-Challenger) for parts and for measurements, hopefully this will help others.
Measurements work on both bodies and MUST be taken on both sides to be square!
Moderators may want to sticky this!

Picture #1 - 59-1/4" (Horizontal at steering mount)
Picture #2 - 58-3/8" (Seam to Seam)
Picture #3 - 58-1/4" (Seam to Seam)
Picture #4 - 59-3/4" (Seam to Seam)
Picture #5 - 44-3/8" (Edge to Edge, top & bottom)
Picture #6 - 64-1/4" (Upper rear quarter edge to rear inner rocker seam)
Picture #7 - 76" (Upper rear quarter edge to front inner rocker seam)
Picture #8 - 64" (Front corner to control hole)
Picture #9 - 58-3/4" (Top of front inner frame to control hole)

 

[Cuda Hunter]

Just thought I would add these attachments here. Maybe they will help.