• Welcome to For E Bodies Only !

    We are a community of Plymouth Cuda and Dodge Challenger owners. Join now! Its Free!

5sp Manual Overdrive <$2k. Keep your Tbar Xmember!

Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Clinton, NJ
Hi all, my first real post here. Would anyone be interested in a writeup on my AR5 5-speed transmission swap into my 1971 Challenger? It is similar to the AX15 swaps I've seen on here but capable of more power (at least 400). I did not need to remove my t-bar crossmember like the 6 speed swaps require. Thanks!

1695761841115.jpeg
 

Cudapile

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2023
Messages
23
Reaction score
7
Location
Houston
Hi all, my first real post here. Would anyone be interested in a writeup on my AR5 5-speed transmission swap into my 1971 Challenger? It is similar to the AX15 swaps I've seen on here but capable of more power (at least 400). I did not need to remove my t-bar crossmember like the 6 speed swaps require. Thanks!

View attachment 112828
I’m definitely interested in the swap.
Please share the details.
 

Bigblue73

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
13
Reaction score
4
I'm interested in seeing this. How and why did you choose the AR5 transmission?
 

ChallengerGary

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
57
Reaction score
9
Location
Port Saint Lucie, FL
I am definitely interested as well. I have a 340 for my 1971 Challenger and really want a 5 or 6 speed but at close to 8 grand for Tremec Kit I may just end up with an automatic :(
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Clinton, NJ
I was in your exact situation, Gary, that's why I wanted to share this build. I will try to get a "first installment" posted this week.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Clinton, NJ
TLDR Parts List:
  • ~05-07 Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon/Isuzu Truck AR5 5 Speed Manual RWD
  • 90s Dakota Bellhousing 3.9L V6
  • 5.9 Magnum 143T flywheel (differs depending on engine balance)
  • ARP Flywheel Bolts
  • McLeod Performance Clutch
  • ARP Pressure Plate Bolts
  • Holley Adapter Pilot Bearing
  • Colorado Stock Slave Cylinder
  • Custom Slave Cylinder Spacer
  • Fabbot Slave Lines
  • Wilwood MC
  • Wilwood Pedal
  • Southwest Speed Semi-Custom Driveshaft (delivered in 2-3 days!)
Research:
Since I bought my 1971 Challenger 318/727 in August '21, I have been researching manual transmission swap options. Swaps that have been done in the past are as follows:
  • Standard A833 (No OD)
  • Tremec TKO/TKX ($6k+)
  • Tremec T56/TR6060 (Requires cutting t bar crossmember)
  • A833 OD (Poor gear ratios)
  • AX15 (Generally regarded as weak)
None of these options were very appealing to me. I then discovered the Chevy Colorado AR5 5 speed manual, used in LS swaps, Lexus IS cars, etc. It was used by Reignited on Youtube behind a truck 6.4 hemi in a Chevy truck. It was also used in a B-body LeMons car, detailed in a FABO post (link). But never in an E-body - this is where I needed to fill in the gaps.

Fitment and Strength:
Determining if this trans would fit was a combination of other peoples' build notes and a leap of faith.

I first found an individual in France who has swapped an AX15 into his Challenger (link). The AX15 is nearly identical externally to the AR5, but is anecdotally weak. He did not seem to need to cut much besides the floorpan. His shifter is also popping through the floor pretty far up. The AX15 shifter is a bit farther up then the AR5. This build was my first look at a budget option for an overdrive manual in an E-body.

Next, I find the Reignited Youtube channel using an MA5/AR5 transmission behind a 6.4 hemi in a truck using a Jeep Liberty bellhousing(link). This is the first I heard of the AR5, and I found various builds with 600 hp LS motors in front of it. The transmissions seem to most commonly break 3rd gear with very high horsepower and sticky tires. It seems the general consensus is they can confidently handle 500 hp or less. I have no worries with around 400 hp on the street. This build showed me that the AR5 could be mated to the Mopar bolt pattern and was strong enough for my application.

The third build I found was this 318+AR5 in a b-body (link). B-bodies have the same t-bar x-member we do, so I figured it would be a good comparison. They ended up cutting some of the crossmember out to clear the trans. I was hoping to not cut my crossmember since I had just replaced it. It seems they cut it for clearance around the web on the back of the transmission. This web connects the shifter base to the tail. Measurements of the trans indicated that the rear of the shifter housing would line up very closely to the front face of the t-bar x-member. Therefore, if I could cut this web, it should make a nice 90 degree clearance for the x-member.
20230708_142516[1].jpg20230708_145255[1].jpg
With this information I was confident buying a trans. Once it was in hand, I mocked up the transmission on a dolly with my old torsion bar crossmember. I estimated I would need to cut the web out of the back of the trans along with about 3/4" of the x-member flange to achieve adequate clearance.
My measurements must have been about 1/2 to 3/4” off, since I needed to trim the back of the shifter housing to clear the crossmember. There is still about .200” of thickness left, which should be adequate for sealing and strength. This trimming was not fun to do after the trans was installed!

In conclusion, it fits with a moderate amount of surgery to the trans. If the trans needed to be modified past this point, I would not recommend the swap. An alternative solution is to move the motor forward by about 3/4” which would allow you to keep the rear two shifter bolts. I wanted to stay away from the ripple effect moving the motor might have.

Availability and Cost:
These transmissions can be found in junkyards through http://car-part.com or FB marketplace for around $500 pretty commonly. There is also a Facebook group for them. I got lucky and found a Colorado engine and trans for sale for $800 w/80k miles. I asked the guy how much for just the trans, I bought it for $200 and it works great. These are getting more popular so it might take a while to find a cheap one.

More pictures to come

Part 2 Coming Soon!
Bellhousing, starter, flywheel, clutch details
 

Bigblue73

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
13
Reaction score
4
I'm curious about the life of this transmission in your application. Being rated at 260lbft. of torque, I would imagine that the AR5 may be on the edge with a V8 application. Any photos of the shifter location inside your car. Great work by the way. This is what hot rodding is all about.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Clinton, NJ
So, how much do you figure you have into the swap? Seems like a very viable solution given the price of the transmission :)
I just added up all my purchases and I'm right around $2k. This includes everything between the pilot bearing and rear u-joint, clutch pedal, hydraulics, gear oil, and a smaller Hemi style brake booster at a whopping $300. This does not include a shifter setup or electronic speedometer adapter since that will be different for everyone. I also have plans to do that on the cheap.

There is definitely some room to save, so I think the <2k still applies. It's amazing how quickly everything adds up, several individual components cost me more than the transmission including the driveshaft and pressure plate assembly. I will be posting a detailed parts list soon.
 

ChallengerGary

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
57
Reaction score
9
Location
Port Saint Lucie, FL
I just added up all my purchases and I'm right around $2k. This includes everything between the pilot bearing and rear u-joint, clutch pedal, hydraulics, gear oil, and a smaller Hemi style brake booster at a whopping $300. This does not include a shifter setup or electronic speedometer adapter since that will be different for everyone. I also have plans to do that on the cheap.

There is definitely some room to save, so I think the <2k still applies. It's amazing how quickly everything adds up, several individual components cost me more than the transmission including the driveshaft and pressure plate assembly. I will be posting a detailed parts list soon.
That's more like it! WAY better than $8k!
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Clinton, NJ
Part 2: Working Rearwards...
------------------------------------------------------
Pilot Bearing:

I used this Holley swap pilot bearing after looking through a lot of stock options, looking at sizes of bearings for both 5.9 magnums and Colorados on Rockauto, and measuring my trans and crank. It is basically a needle bearing in a bronze adapter, all you really need. $60
Holley 50378
20230704_153515.jpg
Flywheel:
The 5.9 Magnum has a unique balance from all other SBMs, so I had to get one specifically for this engine. I got a standard replacement flywheel off Rockauto. This is a 143T truck flywheel, as necessitated by the truck bellhousing. This bellhousing was never used with a 5.9, but the V6 and 5.2 also use a 143T as it would seem. $125
AMS Automotive Flywheel

Flywheel bolts- use the good stuff, ARP with proper assembly grease and loctite. Standard SBM $19
ARP-240-2801
20230704_162909.jpg

Clutch and Pressure Plate:
This is a weird one, since we are using a bigger flywheel than came with the Colorado but the same Chevy input shaft spline. McLeod has a helpful document here. I went with a McLeod unit rated for 450 hp, it is not vehicle specific but has the input spline and bolt pattern I need. It is decently stiff but not strenuous at all, it is a hybrid design and it does chatter once in a while at low speed but I may not have given it enough break in. Still happy with it.
MCL-75221

Pressure plate bolts: ARP-130-2201

20230704_150011.jpg

Slave Cylinder:
Another interesting one, you can either run an external slave cylinder like originally came on this bellhousing, or run an internal slave like on the Colorado. Using the external slave would require a different front bearing retainer on the trans, so the decision is easy. I got a good quality stock slave on Rockauto. The problem here is getting the correct slave cylinder preload. Yes, preload, not air gap. Most modern cars have preloaded slaves. According to several sources including fabbotfab.com, the slave should be .100-.200" from bottoming out when installed. Another source says between 1/16 and 1/8, so I shot for .100. Proper preload will prevent the slave from overextending.

Slave Cylinder

Since the bellhousing and flywheel position are different from the Colorado the slave was made for, you can guess it won't be right the first time. Through many measurements of the trans and engine, I determined a .420" spacer was required underneath the slave. Since this is a concentric slave, it must be centered around the input shaft if you want it to last. The trans has two machined bosses that mate with a bore on the back of the slave to keep it concentric. The bolts alone are not enough to accomplish this. Since the alignment bore on the slave is only ~.080" deep, the spacer must incorporate these features.

The closest available spacer I could find was .500" although this was in the middle of the build so I was looking for something quicker, and it may have been just as much work to modify the off the shelf part as to make a new one. I turned the spacer out of 1/2" aluminum plate and it fitted up well. I did make an error of the front boss being too tall, so I shimmed the slave further out. I ended up with .072" of preload remaining in the slave, which is right on the tight end of the range. It works great!

For hardware, I did buy some longer metric bolts from Advance. I will try to have the size for the full part list.

20230705_232302.jpg20230705_232305.jpg20230706_211355.jpg

Trans Mount:
I bought a standard Colorado mount from Rockauto and planned to modify the 727 crossmember to fit. I was able to cut the lateral hole for the 727 rubber mount off. Weld a plate flat on the bottom, and cut and weld the rest to clear the mount. Not too bad if you have a welder. Chrysler was even nice enough to leave it as bare steel for easy welding!

20230712_211203.jpg20230712_220617.jpg20230714_221257.jpg

Driveshaft and Yoke:
A custom transmission swap requires a custom driveshaft. I considered finding a Colorado shaft that would fit, but there is no info available and the tolerance for length is pretty tight.

I was quoted $600-800 for a custom driveshaft from a shop - a little steep for me. Someone online recommended Southwest Speed, and I am quite happy with mine. I got a 3" aluminum shaft for $380 shipped, arrived in about 2-3 days. They have most sizes in 1/2" increments sitting on the shelf, which is amazing for a guy with a car in a million pieces trying to get on the road. It came with the correct yoke for my trans, and a rear u joint. I did have to install the front yoke and swap the rear yoke to fit my 8-3/4, which had the "big dodge" size. It does seem like my front u joint is spitting some grease, so I need to check it out. Otherwise, I am very pleased!
My length was 51.5" from seal to rear u joint face. This equates to I think a 49" driveshaft. They tried to convince me to measure to the trans housing instead of the seal edge, which would have been a mistake. You want 3/4' - 1" of plunge available, and I am dead on 3/4".

Southwest Speed $350

20230716_120330.jpg

Part 3: Pedals and Hydraulics Coming Soon
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Clinton, NJ
Yes, I have been working on a shifter linkage to fit under the E-body console and a custom speedometer driver similar to a Speedbox. I can also post some driving videos and finish discussing the hydraulics soon.
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Clinton, NJ
Part 3: Pedals and Hydraulics
I copied a lot of my pedal/hydraulic setup from 'No Bolts Left Behind' on YouTube. Link here to what he did:


I used the same pedal and MC, below:
Wilwood 340-13834 Pedal
Wilwood 260-13621 Compact Remote MC (Bore size is important to get proper throw)

If you have power brakes, you will need a dual inline brake booster to clear the MC, like this one from Mancini Racing:

MBMPB8536-2

This booster has the 4-bolt mopar pattern. If you are using a 2-bolt MC, you can get away with a much cheaper Chevy booster. That is what No Bolts Left Behind did. The firewall bolt spacing is slightly different so that would require some Dremelling. The Mancini booster fit no problem with the original firewall plate.

20230629_224958 crop.jpg


I was planning on copying the same location from NBLB YT for the pedal/MC, but it gave me a weird pedal location. I found a lower spot for the MC that is on a nice flat part of the firewall. The clutch and brake are almost lined up and about 5.5" apart which is what NBLB recommended. It is working great! My only complaint is I need to have the pedal pretty far up to get full travel. Maybe a slightly larger bore would work better for this application. I went off the recommendation of FabBot which deals in a lot of AR5 swaps.

An automatic brake pedal will need a couple inches cut off the left side to fit the clutch. You can then use a standard Mopar pedal pad on the brake and clutch.

20230629_225039.jpg


The clutch lines are simple, FabBot had exactly what I needed.
The remote bleeder is somewhat required for an internal slave.

I can provide a more precise MC location upon request.
20230706_231608 crop.jpg
 
Last edited:
Back
Top