Need help making decision

[JusticePrevails]

I days away from buying a numbers matching 1973 barracuda with a 340 automatic. Everything is original. The frame is strait and never wrecked. Here is the things I would like knowledgeable opinions on. The person I'm buying from does rotisserie restorations and he will be doing one for me.

Is it better to have numbers matching or put a 440 into it? Collector value wise

Also how bad is it to change the interior to black from the current white?

It is currently the brown color from the factory - I would greatly prefer painting it Plum Crazy or red. Will the color change hurt its desirability.

What modifications should I consider doing to the engine - if any. and in what priority assuming I can't afford to do everything.

 

[ramenth]

First off, welcome aboard!

I days away from buying a numbers matching 1973 barracuda with a 340 automatic. Everything is original. The frame is strait and never wrecked. Here is the things I would like knowledgeable opinions on. The person I'm buying from does rotisserie restorations and he will be doing one for me.

Is it better to have numbers matching or put a 440 into it? Collector value wise

Collector value wise, the '72-'74 cars don't even come close to their '70 and '71 sisters. Even being a numbers matching 340 car. If you're looking for an investment you'd be better off looking for one built in the first two years.

At this point, build it the way you want to. Put the 340 on a stand and if you need to, you'd be able to sell the original engine with the car.

Also how bad is it to change the interior to black from the current white?

Not bad at all. Seat covers, door panels, quarter covers, kick panels. All are available. Or if the original plastic is in good shape you can send it out and get 'em covered.

But, this comes back to your original question. If you're really concerned about originality you'd keep the interior white.

It is currently the brown color from the factory - I would greatly prefer painting it Plum Crazy or red. Will the color change hurt its desirability.

Like I said, this car is no where near as desirable as the first two years of production. A color change on a '73 might just be more appealing to the next guy.

What modifications should I consider doing to the engine - if any. and in what priority assuming I can't afford to do everything.

Which engine? The factory 340 or the 440 you want to put in it?


Look, a couple of things you need to figure out. What's the car you want? Having someone else restore a '73 - even numbers matching - is gonna be a break even prospect, even if the car doesn't need a lot a work and the car is sold for top dollar. If you're looking to put money into it and flip it, find something more desirable that's still screwed together, say a '70 or '71 340 car, or a Six Pak car, or a Hemi. Top dollar, yes, but top dollar when done. This car just isn't going to bring the money.

That being said, if you're worried about the whole numbers matching thing, you need to go back to 100% original. Engine, color, interior, just the way to car rolled out of the factory.

But it seems to me, from reading your post, you found a car that you'd like to build your way and you can't get past the idea that the original 340 is in it and you're afraid of screwing up an original car.

Build the car you want. Black interior, Plum Crazy (overused in my opinion), black interior, 440. Or leave the original engine in place and step up the performance. Bring up the compression, good cam, head work, headers, and let that little 340 rip.

 

[VeteranCosmicRocker]

This is easy. As Rameth said, not a 70-71, Hemi/6-bbl/AAR car, it's numbers-matching collectibility is minimal. What he said is spot on. So... do it they way YOU like.... as I've said to others I've done cars for, it's what makes you happy is all that matters.

 

[moparlee]

Welcome to FEBO! I agree with Rameth and VeteranCosmicRocker. Build the car you want and for what you want it to do and you will be happy with it. Once you decide what you want take it one step at a time. There is a ton of knowledge here to help you along the way.

 

[JusticePrevails]

You are right - I'm afraid to screw up a numbers matching car. Unfortunately 25 to 28K is all of my budget for the complete car and restoration. Any more and I won't even get the couch to sleep on. Of course I want to enjoy it and have what I want too. My goal is to have a couple of years enjoying it and hoping to sell it for break even of better making a little money. I just saw the same call sell on Ebay last week for $35,000.00 - I don't know if that was a fluke or reasonable expectation if you are not in a hurry.

So you feel Plum is overdone? I was also thinking of red like the one that sold on Ebay. Also, am I correct in that the interior color is not listed on the fender tag? I can't seem to find it, if not going to black would be my little secret.

So numbers is not very important if the car is not the right years? Oh well....

 

[Bill]

Thanks for the plumb crazy quote Robert. I hope to get my 73 Challenger to the paint stage this summer and I was thinking about Plumb crazy but I am feeling the same about it being "over done". That being said, I am thinking about Vanishing point Alpine White. Mine s a Rallye and I may keep the strobes off of it???

 

[challenger6pak]

All the advice you have been given is correct and very good. I am only going to add one thought. Everything you have mentioned doing to the car does not permanently destroy it's originality. Keep everything that is original from the car that you don't use. Label the parts and box them up. This way if you ever want to go original or if someone else ends up with the car and wants it to be original, it can be done. Have fun with it. The interior color is on the fender tag. Numbers matching will always matter to someone. You only have one original drive train for each car. The fact that you have the original drive train shows that the car was not heavily modified during it's life. I have a Challenger that I have had 9 different engines in. That scares some people. The Ebay car: watch and see if it comes up again. Many do, that sell higher than the market. Don't plan to make any money on this car. You won't. There are many things you can do to the car yourself. We will be glad to help you along the way. If you do a lot on this car yourself, instead of paying a restorer, you may only lose time if you decide to sell it. Welcome to the board.

 

[ramenth]

You are right - I'm afraid to screw up a numbers matching car.

I wouldn't be. But that's just me! lol

Unfortunately 25 to 28K is all of my budget for the complete car and restoration. Any more and I won't even get the couch to sleep on.

"Unfortunately?" That's a hell of a misfortune! lol But we get where you're coming from. You have a budget and you need to stay within that.

Of course I want to enjoy it and have what I want too. My goal is to have a couple of years enjoying it and hoping to sell it for break even of better making a little money. I just saw the same call sell on Ebay last week for $35,000.00 - I don't know if that was a fluke or reasonable expectation if you are not in a hurry.

I'd like to see the one that was on feepay.

It's a roll of the dice. In a few years you could get your investment out of it. In a few days you could get your investment out of it, after it's done. But then again, you might lose your shirt in a few years, too. Collector car values are some of the most unstable things out there.

Remember, value is set by the seller and the buyer coming together on a price. The car on feepay may have been the "perfect storm," so to speak.

So you feel Plum is overdone?

Yes, I do. I also feel B5 is starting to get overdone. And my Barracuda was originally B5 with a B5 gut.

I was also thinking of red like the one that sold on Ebay.

It's your car. Paint it the color you like. If you like Plum Crazy, go for it. If you like red, then do it instead. You're building the car for you, not for me.

Either color might be the way to go with your intentions for the future you might find either one of those colors are more attractive to prospective buyers.

Also, am I correct in that the interior color is not listed on the fender tag? I can't seem to find it, if not going to black would be my little secret.

Actually, it should be. There should be another code after the paint code that corresponds with the trim color. Gettin' old, though, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

So numbers is not very important if the car is not the right years? Oh well....

Not as much as it is with the '70's and '71's

 

[JusticePrevails]

Thanks everybody, I'm starting to get cold feet. Maybe I'll wait and see if I can get lucky one day and find a 70 or 71. I wouldn't think they would be any more to restore assuming it has most of the critical components. I don't know - I really was thinking that this general direction would be better that buying a new challenger for 35 - 40k and when I get done paying it off having a 10 k car.

I wouldn't be. But that's just me! lol

"Unfortunately?" That's a hell of a misfortune! lol But we get where you're coming from. You have a budget and you need to stay within that.



I'd like to see the one that was on feepay.

It's a roll of the dice. In a few years you could get your investment out of it. In a few days you could get your investment out of it, after it's done. But then again, you might lose your shirt in a few years, too. Collector car values are some of the most unstable things out there.

Remember, value is set by the seller and the buyer coming together on a price. The car on feepay may have been the "perfect storm," so to speak.




Yes, I do. I also feel B5 is starting to get overdone. And my Barracuda was originally B5 with a B5 gut.



It's your car. Paint it the color you like. If you like Plum Crazy, go for it. If you like red, then do it instead. You're building the car for you, not for me.

Either color might be the way to go with your intentions for the future you might find either one of those colors are more attractive to prospective buyers.



Actually, it should be. There should be another code after the paint code that corresponds with the trim color. Gettin' old, though, someone correct me if I'm wrong.



Not as much as it is with the '70's and '71's

 

[ramenth]

Thanks everybody, I'm starting to get cold feet. Maybe I'll wait and see if I can get lucky one day and find a 70 or 71. I wouldn't think they would be any more to restore assuming it has most of the critical components. I don't know - I really was thinking that this general direction would be better that buying a new challenger for 35 - 40k and when I get done paying it off having a 10 k car.

Your thinking is sound on the money investment of the old versus the new.

I'm in a similar position myself. I need a truck. I could go out and buy a brand new Ram and watch it depreciate... and depreciate... and depreciate. Or I can keep plugging away on my old rusty F150. Sure, it may not look as good as a new Ram, but she'll do the job. And I have a helluva lot less money spent on it than I would on a new truck, with money left over to build any one of my projects.

And, in a pinch, I could walk away from it for at least the money I have in it to this point. No harm no foul, just out the time to make it road worthy is all.

Don't let the numbers matching thing on this car scare you. As has been said, you can always take everything that's original that you'd like to upgrade or replace and store it away in tubs or crates. That way everything is there for the next guy if he chooses to go back to a numbers matching/original state.

 

[JusticePrevails]

My biggest concern now, since hearing for everyone is that if I have this 73 redone even with numbers matching - that I would lose my butt. I have been assuring my wife that it would be better than a new car (loss of $) and I still think that should be true. For my enjoyment and fun a 73 is fine. It won't impress you serious collectors - but I could still go to the little car shows at drive in restaurants and have some fun. But it is a deal breaker if I do a nice restoration for 28k and it is not going to be worth that when its done or a couple of years down the road. I guess it still should be more valuable in 5 yrs than most new cars.

Your thinking is sound on the money investment of the old versus the new.

I'm in a similar position myself. I need a truck. I could go out and buy a brand new Ram and watch it depreciate... and depreciate... and depreciate. Or I can keep plugging away on my old rusty F150. Sure, it may not look as good as a new Ram, but she'll do the job. And I have a helluva lot less money spent on it than I would on a new truck, with money left over to build any one of my projects.

And, in a pinch, I could walk away from it for at least the money I have in it to this point. No harm no foul, just out the time to make it road worthy is all.

Don't let the numbers matching thing on this car scare you. As has been said, you can always take everything that's original that you'd like to upgrade or replace and store it away in tubs or crates. That way everything is there for the next guy if he chooses to go back to a numbers matching/original state.

 

[JusticePrevails]

My biggest concern now, since hearing for everyone is that if I have this 73 redone even with numbers matching - that I would lose my butt. I have been assuring my wife that it would be better than a new car (loss of $) and I still think that should be true. For my enjoyment and fun a 73 is fine. It won't impress you serious collectors - but I could still go to the little car shows at drive in restaurants and have some fun. But it is a deal breaker if I do a nice restoration for 28k and it is not going to be worth that when its done or a couple of years down the road. I guess it still should be more valuable in 5 yrs than most new cars.

Your thinking is sound on the money investment of the old versus the new.

I'm in a similar position myself. I need a truck. I could go out and buy a brand new Ram and watch it depreciate... and depreciate... and depreciate. Or I can keep plugging away on my old rusty F150. Sure, it may not look as good as a new Ram, but she'll do the job. And I have a helluva lot less money spent on it than I would on a new truck, with money left over to build any one of my projects.

And, in a pinch, I could walk away from it for at least the money I have in it to this point. No harm no foul, just out the time to make it road worthy is all.

Don't let the numbers matching thing on this car scare you. As has been said, you can always take everything that's original that you'd like to upgrade or replace and store it away in tubs or crates. That way everything is there for the next guy if he chooses to go back to a numbers matching/original state.

 

[KATSAAR]

man ,shame on you guys.
your making it sound like the car the poor guy wants to buy is worth $ 50 bucks.
help the guy ,dont hurt his feelings.
i laugh when i look at 70 -71 s for sale.
there not selling any time soon.
i have a 73 340 4 speed b5 cuda and love it.
paint it purple, put the 340 in it and enjoy it.
thanks
AND I CAN AFFORD AN AAR.

 

[moparleo]

AND I CAN AFFORD AN AAR.

??

Restoring classic cars isn't a hobby that you make money on, unless you are getting paid to restore someone elses car.

It should be a hobby that you can enjoy without worrying if you will make money on it. A hobby is an expense doing something that you enjoy, like going on a vacation or amusement park, theater... You do it for the enjoyment, not to make money on it.
There is a satisfaction on doing some of the work yourself. Not only to save money but to be able to say to your wife and friends "I did it myself"
Do it the way YOU want to do it and unless you do something really wierd to it, it should have a larger market in five to ten years from now because " they don't make them anymore."
The market is about as low as it will get, so look around and make offers. There are cars out there right now for the person willing to do their homework.
Enjoy life while you can. More than a few members have found that out lately. Tomorrow is not guaranteed for any one.

 

[challenger6pak]

man ,shame on you guys. your making it sound like the car the poor guy wants to buy is worth $ 50 bucks.help the guy ,dont hurt his feelings.i laugh when i look at 70 -71 s for sale. there not selling any time soon. i have a 73 340 4 speed b5 cuda and love it.paint it purple, put the 340 in it and enjoy it. thanks AND I CAN AFFORD AN AAR.

Shame on who for what? On post #7 I said have fun with it. Others have agreed. He asked for advice and was given sound advice. What advice did you give? You can afford an AAR. Congratulations. Do you think you are the only one? What was the purpose of your post? It certainly was not positive. Back to topic.

 

[challenger6pak]

Justice. What needs done to the car? Maybe it does not need a complete restoration. A partial restoration is far cheaper than doing a complete one. Do you have any more pics you can post?

 

[ramenth]

Actually, I see nothing wrong with any of the advice given. Nothing to be ashamed of, especially considering he was asking about honest opinions on being able to flip the car after a few years of enjoyment.

You have a '73 340 car. You love it. Good for you. I have a '69 Plymouth Sport Satellite 4 door, factory 383-4bbl car that I've owned since I was 16. I love it. Good for me. Neither have any bearing on what the discussion is.

Good for you that you can afford to buy an AAR. What's your point in saying this? Seems to me it has no bearing on the discussion.

I think if you look at most of the posts you'll see many chiming in on building the car:

this is what I said in my first post:

But it seems to me, from reading your post, you found a car that you'd like to build your way and you can't get past the idea that the original 340 is in it and you're afraid of screwing up an original car.

Build the car you want. Black interior, Plum Crazy (overused in my opinion), black interior, 440. Or leave the original engine in place and step up the performance. Bring up the compression, good cam, head work, headers, and let that little 340 rip.

This is what was said next:

So... do it they way YOU like.... as I've said to others I've done cars for, it's what makes you happy is all that matters.

And next:

Build the car you want and for what you want it to do and you will be happy with it.

And next in line:

All the advice you have been given is correct and very good. I am only going to add one thought. Everything you have mentioned doing to the car does not permanently destroy it's originality. Keep everything that is original from the car that you don't use. Label the parts and box them up. This way if you ever want to go original or if someone else ends up with the car and wants it to be original, it can be done. Have fun with it. The interior color is on the fender tag. Numbers matching will always matter to someone. You only have one original drive train for each car. The fact that you have the original drive train shows that the car was not heavily modified during it's life. I have a Challenger that I have had 9 different engines in. That scares some people. The Ebay car: watch and see if it comes up again. Many do, that sell higher than the market. Don't plan to make any money on this car. You won't. There are many things you can do to the car yourself. We will be glad to help you along the way. If you do a lot on this car yourself, instead of paying a restorer, you may only lose time if you decide to sell it. Welcome to the board.

And then from me again:

It's your car. Paint it the color you like. If you like Plum Crazy, go for it. If you like red, then do it instead. You're building the car for you, not for me.

As you can see, Leo, C6pak chimed in again after your post.

Reading comprehension problems? I don't know, but it seems to me you were selective in your reading of the replies.

Fact is, the chances of making money on any car if you're paying someone else to restore it for you is slim to none. Unless that car is a Hemi or Six Pak car. And that still depends on what it needs.

From my point of view the OP was given spot on advice.

Personally, I'd rather see a car being built to appease the current owner than to appease the next guy. If you're into the numbers matching thing then that's what going to appease you. If you not, then go ahead and build that 440, paint it Plum Crazy, put the black interior in it, forget the "correct" thing and let it rip!

Oh, and just for shits and giggles: I can afford an AAR, too. But I'd rather have my '74 and build it the way I want.

 

[JusticePrevails]

I am not taking offense to anyone's comments. I am asking opinions and everyone has one. I am just seeking ideas from people with more experience than I have.

 

[ramenth]

I am not taking offense to anyone's comments. I am asking opinions and everyone has one. I am just seeking ideas from people with more experience than I have.

Yeah, well, bud, some folks like to take offense when none is given.

I know it's your time, your money, and your project, and it's all up to you, but from where I'm sitting I'd like to see you buy the car and build it the way you want it.

Chances are, the idea of re-selling it in a few years will be forgotten. You'll fall in love with it and won't want to part with it.

 

[challenger6pak]

I agree with Ramenth.