Hotchkis TVS or QA1 Level 3 Kits or Other options

[dakota]

I have a 1970 Barracuda Gran Coupe which started life as a 383 Automatic and now has a mild build 440 automatic. Other modifications to date include the Borgeson Steering Sector and Holley Sniper EFI, both of which I have been very happy with! Now I am wanting to give the car a more modern ride and feel and handling. The car is currently at a point where it would need a lot of suspension bushings and probably shocks replaced, so I have starting looking at some of the rebuild parts and kits. I know someone local to me that has the Hotchkis TVS kit in a 74 Cuda and says he really loves it. I've also seen the new QA1 Level 3 Kits with shocks that look pretty interesting and I've always heard great things about QA1 Suspension parts. So if you were planning to spend somewhere between $2500 - $4000 upgrading suspension, which kit would you choose? If neither kit, what parts would you change to update the suspension quality. Car is not a drag strip car, or an autocross car, just mostly cruising and some stop light to stop light action from time to time. Currently has 15" wheels but would strongly consider changing that to a 17" or 18" wheel if I go through with major suspension changes. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've read some earlier posts about suspension, but since the QA1 kit is fairly new, I thought I would get peoples opinion on QA1 Level 3 vs Hotchkis TVS or entirely different options?
Thanks!

 

[70chall440]

I have nothing really bad to say about the Hotchkis system and I am sure it works however IMO you are paying some for the name and brand name recognition. I have complete Firm Feel systems on my 70 Challenger and 73 Cuda. I used stage 3 boxes, fast ratio pitman/idler arms, larger T bars, poly bushings, larger sway bars. I can say that without a doubt that they handle.

You have to determine what you want the outcome to be, how well you want it to handle. I think many people go with Hotchkis because it is easy, however you can achieve the same thing with other companies/products.

The actual suspension is one aspect however you should also look at chassis stiffening which will help tremendously. You can also look at perimeter welding the K frame and reinforcing the steering box mounts.

You should consider large T bars, 1.08 - 1.14 but most importantly you need good quality shocks. You can probably use your stock leaf springs unless you are going to track the car but I would get decent sway bars.

I guess the best suggestion I can offer is to call Firm Feel, explain what you want out of your suspension and car and they will give you an honest answer. They are a small family owned Mopar focused company.

 

[dakota]

I have nothing really bad to say about the Hotchkis system and I am sure it works however IMO you are paying some for the name and brand name recognition. I have complete Firm Feel systems on my 70 Challenger and 73 Cuda. I used stage 3 boxes, fast ratio pitman/idler arms, larger T bars, poly bushings, larger sway bars. I can say that without a doubt that they handle.

You have to determine what you want the outcome to be, how well you want it to handle. I think many people go with Hotchkis because it is easy, however you can achieve the same thing with other companies/products.

The actual suspension is one aspect however you should also look at chassis stiffening which will help tremendously. You can also look at perimeter welding the K frame and reinforcing the steering box mounts.

You should consider large T bars, 1.08 - 1.14 but most importantly you need good quality shocks. You can probably use your stock leaf springs unless you are going to track the car but I would get decent sway bars.

I guess the best suggestion I can offer is to call Firm Feel, explain what you want out of your suspension and car and they will give you an honest answer. They are a small family owned Mopar focused company.

Thank you for your input and suggestions. I have looked at Firm Feel's website and will certainly consider giving them a call like you mentioned to see what they recommend. I wasn't crazy about how low the Hotchkis system drops the rear so far, so maybe after talking to Firm Feel they can steer me a different direction

 

[70chall440]

I am a big fan of Firm Feel. They are very helpful (and relatively local to me) but most importantly (to me) is all they do is Mopar, they know them and can help you.

 

[Mopar Mitch]

Dakota -- Whatever you end up choosing, you'll notice a major difference... stiffer torsion bars especially (don't be afraid of larger TBs... 1.10-1.12--1.18 good for street). Since you have a BB engine, you want to reduce the lift and dive of that extra weight.. consider ~1.18 (from Firm Feel) and be done with it. BUT, mark my words, you will soon notice that the larger TBs aren't bad at all... and that you could've gone larger (I run 1.24" diameter... largest that will fit inside the factory hex opening... and I use my car on the street/hwy.. and HPDE/HSAX/pylon AX).

Hotchkis has a proven package, although their TBs are, in my opinion (and other's that I've spoken to), too soft...should be at least 1.18 or 1.20. Whatever TB you install, you'll soon realize that its not too harsh and you could've easily gone larger/stiffer.

Leaf springs -- step up the stiffness.. and keep them near flat when loaded for your cruising.. maybe just a slight arch. Firm Feel, Hotchkis.. both are good choices. You'll end up with a slightly lowered rear, but that's OK... just lower the front slightly with the TBs. (Note: check the driveshaft angle... shims for angular correction may likely be needed). You can also adjust the rear ride height with different front hangers... see "AR Engineering" selection (he offers them through different vendors, Mancini, etc... and direct from him).

Upper Control arms -- Hotchkis has their unique design... very good.. and adjustable for camber/caster. SPC brand/design is also good... fully adjustable. QA1.. depends which design you get. Firm Feel... non-adjustable but designed for much more increased caster and some negative camber. Regardless what you get, adjustability is desired so to get much more positive caster as possible... with a little negative camber.

Lower control arms -- yes, you can have them "box welded/stiffened"... your choice to do this.

K-frame welding -- yes... Firm Feel offers a kit and service ... your choice to do or not.

Sub-frame connectors, etc -- yes... much improvement will be noticed... plan to get it done... multiple choices out their... ground clearance can be an issue pending design. I suggest looking at other e-bodies for their setup of SFCs... and then decide... $$$ is factor as well as installation skill.

Heim-joint setups for struts and tie-rods (Hotchkis, QA1, PST, others) tend to have a shorter life-span vs traditional.... when driving on the street...so.. avoid rough bouncy roads, pot-holes, etc. Firm Feel has good choices for these (adjustable, heavy-duty and polyurethane... that's what I use).

Sway bars... get the now common 1.25" hollow front; any rear will be good, but look for at least 7/8-13/16" diameter. IF you run a rear disc setup, then you may have to avoid the factory above-axle (frame-mount) rear sway bar as it could interfere with the discs (the Dr Diff 10.7" discs hit the factory brackets at the leafs... as I just discovered... so then an under-axle rear bar will be needed (I went with the Hellwig bar.. 7/8" diameter and 3-way adjustable.. and less costly than the Hotchkis rear bar).

Shocks -- you get what you pay for. Today, there are good choices of double adjustables.. Viking, QA1... both good... same technology. I would only suggest (2x adjustables)... so you can truly fine-tune the ride and very easy to adjust! I've recently switched from red Koni D... to QA1 double adjustables... a noticeable change and worth the expense.

Rims/tires -- Be aware that as your sidewall becomes less (50-45-40-35-30 profile), the ride quality will become harsher.. and also more likely to damage the rims if/WHEN you hit potholes in the road. You'll learn to adjust you tire's PSI for ride quality... just don't go too low (not less than ~28 psi) or you're asking for possible trouble with the potholes and rims... Newer cars (late model Challengers, Mustangs, etc) have lots of damaged rims! For your described driving, you won't go wrong with the YearOne 17x9 Ralley or Road rims.. they have the correct offset (zero) and backspacing to properly fit inside our E-body wheelwells without any mods (maybe just tucking in the lips if you want extra insurance from the tire's rubbing.. pending how soft your suspension is. Cudas tend to be a little tighter vs Challengers at the wheelwell/fender lips)... you could go 8" and be pretty much A-OK.... as long as the offset is zero (or no greater than positive 1/4"-1/2 at most). Tires.. typical 275-40-17 will fit with the YearOne rims. IF you go 18" diameter, then you have to be more cautious with rim selection.. and tires sizes... shorter/smaller sidewalls a critical issue. Another choice would be 16x8 rims (various choices) and use 255-50-16 tires (BFG G-Force Comp-2, decent sidewall height for the street/hwy)... mini-lites are nice!... this combo should easily work for you.. I've done it and like it very much for street/hwy.. and occasional road course lapping events... good ride quality!!!

Eventually, get some better supportive seating and a smaller/fatter steering wheel.

Enjoy the ride! (Where are you located???)

 

[Sour]

Heya I caught whiff of another forum post saying the hotchkiss TVs causes frequent bottoming out with a full load of passengers. Any take on this?

 

[Mopar Mitch]

A full load of passengers? c'mon... maybe only one in the passenger front seat..

 

[dakota]

Dakota -- Whatever you end up choosing, you'll notice a major difference... stiffer torsion bars especially (don't be afraid of larger TBs... 1.10-1.12--1.18 good for street). Since you have a BB engine, you want to reduce the lift and dive of that extra weight.. consider ~1.18 (from Firm Feel) and be done with it. BUT, mark my words, you will soon notice that the larger TBs aren't bad at all... and that you could've gone larger (I run 1.24" diameter... largest that will fit inside the factory hex opening... and I use my car on the street/hwy.. and HPDE/HSAX/pylon AX).

Hotchkis has a proven package, although their TBs are, in my opinion (and other's that I've spoken to), too soft...should be at least 1.18 or 1.20. Whatever TB you install, you'll soon realize that its not too harsh and you could've easily gone larger/stiffer.

Leaf springs -- step up the stiffness.. and keep them near flat when loaded for your cruising.. maybe just a slight arch. Firm Feel, Hotchkis.. both are good choices. You'll end up with a slightly lowered rear, but that's OK... just lower the front slightly with the TBs. (Note: check the driveshaft angle... shims for angular correction may likely be needed). You can also adjust the rear ride height with different front hangers... see "AR Engineering" selection (he offers them through different vendors, Mancini, etc... and direct from him).

Upper Control arms -- Hotchkis has their unique design... very good.. and adjustable for camber/caster. SPC brand/design is also good... fully adjustable. QA1.. depends which design you get. Firm Feel... non-adjustable but designed for much more increased caster and some negative camber. Regardless what you get, adjustability is desired so to get much more positive caster as possible... with a little negative camber.

Lower control arms -- yes, you can have them "box welded/stiffened"... your choice to do this.

K-frame welding -- yes... Firm Feel offers a kit and service ... your choice to do or not.

Sub-frame connectors, etc -- yes... much improvement will be noticed... plan to get it done... multiple choices out their... ground clearance can be an issue pending design. I suggest looking at other e-bodies for their setup of SFCs... and then decide... $$$ is factor as well as installation skill.

Heim-joint setups for struts and tie-rods (Hotchkis, QA1, PST, others) tend to have a shorter life-span vs traditional.... when driving on the street...so.. avoid rough bouncy roads, pot-holes, etc. Firm Feel has good choices for these (adjustable, heavy-duty and polyurethane... that's what I use).

Sway bars... get the now common 1.25" hollow front; any rear will be good, but look for at least 7/8-13/16" diameter. IF you run a rear disc setup, then you may have to avoid the factory above-axle (frame-mount) rear sway bar as it could interfere with the discs (the Dr Diff 10.7" discs hit the factory brackets at the leafs... as I just discovered... so then an under-axle rear bar will be needed (I went with the Hellwig bar.. 7/8" diameter and 3-way adjustable.. and less costly than the Hotchkis rear bar).

Shocks -- you get what you pay for. Today, there are good choices of double adjustables.. Viking, QA1... both good... same technology. I would only suggest (2x adjustables)... so you can truly fine-tune the ride and very easy to adjust! I've recently switched from red Koni D... to QA1 double adjustables... a noticeable change and worth the expense.

Rims/tires -- Be aware that as your sidewall becomes less (50-45-40-35-30 profile), the ride quality will become harsher.. and also more likely to damage the rims if/WHEN you hit potholes in the road. You'll learn to adjust you tire's PSI for ride quality... just don't go too low (not less than ~28 psi) or you're asking for possible trouble with the potholes and rims... Newer cars (late model Challengers, Mustangs, etc) have lots of damaged rims! For your described driving, you won't go wrong with the YearOne 17x9 Ralley or Road rims.. they have the correct offset (zero) and backspacing to properly fit inside our E-body wheelwells without any mods (maybe just tucking in the lips if you want extra insurance from the tire's rubbing.. pending how soft your suspension is. Cudas tend to be a little tighter vs Challengers at the wheelwell/fender lips)... you could go 8" and be pretty much A-OK.... as long as the offset is zero (or no greater than positive 1/4"-1/2 at most). Tires.. typical 275-40-17 will fit with the YearOne rims. IF you go 18" diameter, then you have to be more cautious with rim selection.. and tires sizes... shorter/smaller sidewalls a critical issue. Another choice would be 16x8 rims (various choices) and use 255-50-16 tires (BFG G-Force Comp-2, decent sidewall height for the street/hwy)... mini-lites are nice!... this combo should easily work for you.. I've done it and like it very much for street/hwy.. and occasional road course lapping events... good ride quality!!!

Eventually, get some better supportive seating and a smaller/fatter steering wheel.

Enjoy the ride! (Where are you located???)

Mitch,

Thank you for taking the time to leave such a detailed response. I will certainly consider everything you mentioned and put it to good use as I continue to build my Cuda. Thanks again!!