INFO needed Keith Black Hemi

[Cuda Hunter]

I am not a hemi guy. Too much money. Plus, I'm not an engine builder by any means. I've put together a few complete motors with a mechanic staring over my shoulder directing every move.
I would simply like to have a running hemi in my cuda.

A friend of mine used to race funny cars with all the names back in the 70's and 80's.
Great stories, he has.
What I need to know, is what anyone can tell me about this block.
And yes, I would like your opinions on the perceived VALUE of this block and the other parts. No, mods, this is not a wiw ad.
No one, should ask me if it's for sale. It's not. Nor are any of the other hemi's he has.
Currently I only have so many pictures. I can go get more pictures of each of the parts but I want to make sure I can figure out how to strike a deal without insulting a well informed Hemi race guy. He's old and doesn't have a lot of time to just entertain me on my whim.

Let's start here. The block was purchased from Keith Black in 1973. He purchased multiple engines at that time of which were all cast blocks. He had purchased multiple blocks after that date which were aluminum.
I am after one of two cast blocks that remain.
His actual dated 73 block is in his funny car so I can't get my hands on that one.
The one I am after is as I recall, a 1968 block as it has markings on the bell housing mounting surface.
I can't find that picture but will keep looking for it. No vin stamp.
The only marking on the front upper pad is TW and the pad appears to have been shaved? Not sure.
The block also has on it (as seen in a picture to follow)
Mains-90
Sides- 80
# 1070 (this is the number Keith could reference as to when and who it was sold to)(good story)
K. Black
There is another pad that has F1
The block has not been filled and is a water block.
It's said to not be cracked and has been stored inside for it's entire life.
He has guaranteed me it will run with basic honing and prep. Guaranteed, meaning he would give me my money back if it was a broken block. He is an old school fella and stands by his word. No need to question that at this point.

There is a set of iron heads. Some valve covers and as I recall the valve train.
I think, what is missing is a crank and an oil pan/pickup.

Another question I have, is a 413 industrial crank the same as a hemi crank? I have been told this but do not have experience knowledge.

Pics to come in the next message.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

 

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[Cuda Hunter]

That's all I have at this moment.
I will get more pictures. Or I will find others that I have.

Please, fill me in with yal's awesome knowledge.

 

[pschlosser]

I think it was the 426 wedge (not the street hemi) that used a crank similar to that of the 413.

the jacketed "wet blocks" can be a pain for street use, compared to the cast OEM style blocks. If you can get them to seal, that may be fine, but for some, they leak years later.

In my opinion, the complete (running or not) 426 hemi is worth more than the sum of the parts. If you're one of those looking for a bargain, and patient and unwilling to buy the parts you need when they are overpriced, it can take years or decades to piece together a whole engine.

If your hot-rod friend can provide all (or the majority) of the parts you need in the deal, it may be worth the effort to negotiate.

I recall visiting the Keith Black shop back in the 1980s in the rougher parts of "Lynn-Watts" in Los Angeles county. It was an impressive experience.

Dropping a 426 hemi into a vintage Mopar adds at least $50K to its value. So if you can get it all done for under that, you may be able to come out ahead.

 

[Xcudame]

Mains - 90
Sides - 80
That's the torque for the main cap bolts in ft-lbs.

Obviously the block is notched to allow a stroker crank. Do you or your buddy know the current bore? Stock 4.250" or bigger?

Some 413 industrial engines had the eight bolt rear like the 426 Hemi, but they stick out further like the late 50s early 60s big blocks. The 70 413 industrial I walked the rebuild through with my son (that was fun!), had the regular six bolt rear flange.

You can run a standard 413/440 forged crank in a 426 Hemi block with no issues. It won't have the eight bolt flange, but who will know unless you tell them?

If you can get the block, a pair of good heads with a good set of rockers, just about everything else can be bought. Also the connecting rods are unique to. the 426 (longer than a 440 rod). Getting a good set of them would be a blessing.

 

[Cuda Hunter]

I ask about the 413 because I have several industrial motors as well as a few 6 bolt motors.

The bore is 4.25. The owner ran this motor 3 runs, pulled it and put his 73 in and has run 150 runs on the 73 motor.

You say obviously it is notched, but to me it's not obvious as I am not a builder.
Which picture shows the notch, clearly?

 

[Xcudame]

Almost all of the pictures of the bores show notches. I highlighted one so you know.

Hopefully some of the Hemi guys will chime in regarding which parts are hard to get. But I think my list is a good start. And nothing wrong with a "budget" 426 hemi build!

 

[heminut]

That block and the heads shown are cut for wire Orings, a common mod for drag race engines back then. They ran solid copper head gaskets with the wire Orings, which was a pretty much race only setup. I honestly don't know if the Oring grooves would be any kind of problem with running street type head gaskets, hopefully some of the older racers here would have insight on that. Just thought I would point that out.

 

[Xcudame]

I think you could run a set of metal o-rings and a msl head gasket and be fine.

I'm pinging @Chryco Psycho as he has tons of knowledge.

 

[Mr Cuda]

Look deep into your pockets, and decide if you are a hemi kind of guy.
My machine shop, who have built many, told me not to. I could build several 440's, (nice ones, not stock) and a couple of 340's for the cost of an entry level stock hemi build.
That one, is going to be a full build.
But...
Would I buy a collection of hemi parts?
Sure.
Then I could say I have a hemi.