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1970 E-body Radio option code R21

ylocuda

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Thanks for the education. Based on the A01 package that my car definitely reflects, I guess it most likely came with an AM radio option R11. Maybe the tag should have been R11 and not R21? Also if Y39 is also not correct, should I explore a new tag that reflects what I have correctly? I would not ever try pass it off as original (tag) with goal to make it all as correct as I can based on the car itself. I rebuilt this car from the ground up every nut and bolt myself with never ending research, so I’m very familiar with what would be original versus passed off as added on. Goal again is to bring it back to physically as it was delivered (except adding rear spoiler). Thanks for all the help!
 
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Cuda Hunter

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I think a new more accurate tag would be a wise decision.
If you make it as close to possible but make sure it is known to be a new tag the car would not appear as a "fake tag" as it has been. It would help you with not having folks think it was intentionally "faked".

Here is one option for a new tag.
reproduction fender tags
I would definitely keep the tag with the car no matter what and include it with the history of the car regardless.
 

Xcudame

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Ylocuda, never intended to attack you personally, only the fender tag. As you can see, MoparCarGuy has tons of factory order information to help straighten us out! I agree the car is a 384 4spd AC car and you've done a great job making it road worthy and beautiful! I sincerely hope you enjoy driving it, because E-Bodies are fun to drive!
 

ylocuda

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Hi everyone. Another question about my car thats not clear in the available data being a 4sp with A/C, what is the right radiator part number? Is it the 956 or the 961? The original radiator blew up the day I bought the in LA and drove it to Yuma Az in 1990. I was dumb then and threw it away.
 

MoparCarGuy

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1970 Cuda 383 with A/C had a 26" radiator. The radiator chart shows both the core stamped number 2998 958 & 2998 961 but the 961 is the 383-4 BBL radiator.
The 956 may also be correct as it is listed under Maximum Cooling. Glen-Ray Radiators has outstanding reproduction radiators that include the correct radiator cap and ribbed overflow hose.
1970-1971 Radiator List.jpg

Cuda 383 Radiators from Service Manual 7-11.jpg
 

ylocuda

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Thanks Moparcarguy. Thats the first listing I have seen that is definitive to the 961 radiator. Other listings would have noted it was for Auto trans and why I was never sure. There is a 961 radiator on E-bay right now for $300 that needs to be re-cored but tanks appear to be nice. Not sure thats worth re-coring (actual cost) or just laying out cash for glen ray?
 

70 4715

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Ok, I am moving past the fender tag argument and lets say it was reproduced due to the left front accident and that the inner fender was replaced and the tag was mangled. The facts I think we all can agree on based on VIN number is the car is a 383 Cuda. It definitely is a 4sp and definitely came with A/C. This is not something dealerships would have on their lots. Someone had to place an order to get this combo. Would this be why the tag shows the Y39 option?
Does the four speed have the partial VIN stamped into it showing it is original to the car? If not, you CANNOT say for sure that it was a four speed, it could have been a three speed.
That aside, there are GLARINGLY OBVIOUS things about your tag that have not even been brought up that really throw into question that anything listed on the tag actually came on this car. It is a terrible attempt at making a tag by someone that really knew/knows ZERO about 1970 E Bodies.
 

ylocuda

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Thanks 70 4715 for taking this backwards. I have been taking apart and rebuilding mopars since 1981. (73 Challenger, 71 Challenger, 74 Charger and 70 challenger that was burned in a fire). I know them incredibly well right down to the type of screws are correct. If there were any weld jobs or changes in the shift tower connected to the floor boards or the entire firewall being changed out to accommodate A/C I would easily know. Also once again the car was bound for the junk yard and I saved it. There was no reason anyone would have modified a car thats was not worthy one bit to improve its sale ability. Your talking about someone really wanting to fake a car that was basically worthless? I probably paid too much for it in 1990 at $5800. The tag accurately reflects the car and its options. I know what I am looking at. Based on all your posts, It seems your a pessimist and will still not give me the benefit of any doubts.
 

MoparCarGuy

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What other documentation do you have on the car? Have you thoroughly searched for a Broadcast Sheet?
There are known LA-built E-bodies that have a Broadcast Sheet.

The standard engine on a 1970 Cuda (VIN starting with BS) is the 383 with a standard 3-Speed manual. That is why it is always questionable that a 340 or 383 car is a factory 4-speed without some extra documentation to prove it had the D21 - 4 Speed Manual Transmission Floor Shift (A833) option. The 440 and Hemi Cudas came standard with the D21 4-Speed.
The Broadcast Sheet, Window Sticker, or a dealer Invoice is crucial proof for purists.

Your car is definitely a Cuda 383 4-BBL and likely had the D21 - 4-Speed option as very few 3-Speeds (not desirable) were built.
The most desirable option on your repro fender tag is the V4X - Black Strobe Sport Stripes (Vinyl Decal).
Proof of the V4X option would make your car extremely rare, far more so than a 383 4-speed with A/C does.

Truth be told, you have a real Cuda 383 manual car that might have come with the V4X strobe stripes. I personally would search inside the dash above the glovebox liner, under the carpet, inside the bucket seatbacks, inside the rear seat springs, and make absolutely sure you do not have a Broadcast Sheet in there.
All of this only matters if you want to know the true options. You can always put the strobe stripes on the car and tell the story "as is" even with the repro fender tag.
Another route would be to capture the repro tag's VON (if correct) and put together a much better repro tag but without documentation for factory options that tag has no real foundation.

Build it how you please as it is your car. I hope some of this info has at least shed some light on where the car stands now.
1750184079776.png
 
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ylocuda

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The car was dismantled, everything that could be taken apart was. I 100% restored it myself. Even painted it in my garage. Dash was replaced and original one I gave away to a buddy Cuda guy. Only have fender tag and vin number stampings. I guess I have to assume the worst. Its a Cuda 383 4 barrel with possibly all fake options. I actually planned to donate it to a museum later but maybe they would not even want it.
 
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ylocuda

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ylocuda

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Challenger RTA

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What other documentation do you have on the car?
The K frame might have the date on it. Then you would have a time frame
It's an early production model, December 1969
Here again the K frame date.
I bought it after moving to California from north east and never even knew cars existed with no rust
See below image.
some people will do anything to make an extra buck or two.

Not to take away from your car. 383 4 speed is a great car.
If the vin is on the transmission and engine it would be hard to dispute the fact.
Cuda with AC and 4 speed are extremely rare combo,
To change the firewall to accommodate A/C back then. Could be done as a personal preference. But there would be tattle tail signs and very difficult. Plus the die stamping would have to be matched. Not worth it. I would say it is factory option.

This is just my 2¢. The members here are very good on facts and sorting out misunderstandings. I think you have sorted out a few things. I personally experienced it myself personal prefinance rules over all. It can get in the way of clouding the facts.

I came across my challenger late 74. Feb or March of 75 ship was back at home port. As soon as the ship's phone was connected. I called the owner to see if they still had it. He said they where trading it that week end. I went and bought it. He was the original owner had the window sticker, (Decade later found the broadcast sheet.) told me what he did to it and ran it Atco. Had the X heads and a compaction shifter in it and a few other things. But changed it all back before he sold it. It was at night when I got her. When we pulled up behind her. The two shipmate's where stunned there jaws dropped! Paid him for the car he signed the title. I drove away with a Cheshire cat smile.
The point I'm making he could have changed a lot of things. But as far as I know the it was all original. The one thing I did find out later someone pointed out it had a dual snorkel air cleaner. So I just left it that way. Just personal prefinance from the 1st owner.

You have a nice E body. Live with it! No matter what it is.
At lest now you know and you might find out more.
Thanks for sharing what you have. We all learn.

1750333045028.png


car rust belt guide 2.png
 
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ylocuda

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Thanks for the breakdown Challenger RTA. I will see if I can pull a date code off the K frame. In summary, this car absolutely matches what the fender tag says without any evidence of modifications as I really really know well the build of an Ebody. My theory after this whole discussion is that it was in an accident in the left front and the left inner fender was replaced so that prompted the need for a reproduction tag. The only questions I have with respect to the tag says and what the car shows is the R21 code and the now the V4X code. Maybe there was a mistake on how they made up the tag and it really should have been R11 or R22 and maybe the V4X should’ve been a V1X. We will never know. A repro tag would’ve been manufacture probably in the late 80s so they weren’t very good at making it perfect and its really being attacked. This is my best theory based on what I see and I know it is not able to be proven, but it’s what I believe happened and really don’t care and just want to make the car as physically correct as I can as to what I believe it was delivered. I know the wheels I’ll never know what they were but everyone always seems to put rally wheels on it anyway. This is the direction I took and I am going to stick with it and I will not try to pass on anything but what my theory is. Could care less on the value of the car. I just love E-bodies since I was 15 years old when I got my first 1973 Challenger for $100 in 1981. It was towed to my house put in the backyard and the first thing I ever did on my own was put a timing chain on a 318. I do want to thank everybody for helping me get the story straight and best way to represent the car.
 
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