1. Welcome to For E Bodies Only !

    We are a community of Plymouth Cuda and Dodge Challenger owners. Join now! Its Free!

3 serial numbers on 440 block? what the....

Engine Issues

  1. wildone

    wildone Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Hi all . im new here. And i'd like any advice on this? Im looking at buying a 68 440 block . But it has a bit of a mess on id pad at the starter opening. 1 picture is my drawing of what cant be well read on actual block. 2 numbers are the same. The one is X'd out. the other is not X'd out but in different font style of punch. These 2 same numbers are (2390) one day before the date that is stamped on the top engine id pad .
    D 440 (1968)
    2 13 (february 13)
    The second X'd out number is february 1st.
    I got dates from maxwedge.com converter.
    I have a few theories. Lol. Stupid criminal.
    An apprentice at factory screwed up 1st number and tried to " squeeze" in the correct number afterwards? Cause it seems the same punch size and font? Or,
    Later one guy decided to make it very clear which of the 2 originals was correct.?

    What do you guys think? Would any of you buy a block like this?

    20200211_162836.jpg

    20200202_192231.jpg
     
  2. aussiemark

    aussiemark Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    528
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    Location:
    Perth Western Australia
    If I already owned it I would use it as is, if it was for sale I probably wouldn't buy it (too early for an E body anyway) better to buy another block without the messed up stamping.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Chryco Psycho

    Chryco Psycho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    245
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Location:
    Panama
    The serial # is usually stamped on the right side of the block along the oil pan rail after 69 , on most 68s it was stamped on the belhousing flange at the top of the rear of the block , so the placement is wrong either way , if the block checks out , I would sonic check the wall thickness of the cylinders but there is no reason not to use the block .
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. wildone

    wildone Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    I found no v.i.n. number on rear top of the bellhousing or above pan rail on passenger side.or anywhere else. But the engine serial number #PT440P23902376 is on id pad on driver side next to the starter opening. And that is where i have 3 numbers. Similar to the one above. And yes. If i buy it, i will be getting it boiled and magnafluxed for cracks. Thanks
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. moparlee

    moparlee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,590
    Likes Received:
    733
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Location:
    Mid Michigan
    PT440P23902376 decodes as:
    PT - Trenton Plant in Michigan Assembly Plant
    440 - Engine CI
    P - Premium Fuel
    2390 - 10,000 day calendar, Assembly Date Feb 12 1968----
    2376 - Internal plant information
    So based upon this it is a 1968 block.
     
  6. 340challconvert

    340challconvert Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,467
    Likes Received:
    1933
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Location:
    Parsippany, NJ
  7. 340challconvert

    340challconvert Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,467
    Likes Received:
    1933
    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Location:
    Parsippany, NJ
    Just a thought; I never saw any big block serial number x'ed out like that. Mopar did not start stamping blocks until 1968. Since it was a new process; may be someone major league screwed up and it had to be re-stamped?
    Hard to say what happened there.
    If you get the block for a good price and it checks out as good, so long as you do not care about any thing matching, go for it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. wildone

    wildone Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
     
  9. wildone

    wildone Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Yes thats it. Even though it is one day earlier than what is stamped on top pad, which is feb .13 / 68. That will be the number ill stand by. And that number has been restamped. The other number is actually feb. 1st 1968. Simple mistake.
    Thanks to everyone who responded. !
    My conclusion is that these serial numbers do nothing more than confirm the engine assembly date that is also stamped on the upper side i.d. pad to right of distributor. And give a few more engine details. They dont have anything to do with proving that it was stolen from another car!
    But thats why they introduced the V.I.N. STAMPINGS in 1968/69. So as to trace if it was stolen from another car! And since my block has NO V.I.N. anywhere, Neither i or anyone else can prove that it was ever stolen.
    So im gonna buy this thing ! Thats what i was mainly worried about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020 at 12:27 PM
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. volunteer

    volunteer Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2019
    Location:
    Kamloops, B.C.
    Shouldn't the (block) Casting number and Casting date both be located on every block? The C- no. will be on left side - above rearmost core plug - beside starter housing. The C-date could also be in that vicinity, however, my ('70) 340 block has this (cast-in, not stamped) number on right side - in vicinity of front core plug and motor mount boss. Mine reads 11-29-69.
     
  11. wildone

    wildone Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Im speaking of a 440 block from 68. The casting number is on driver side and passenger side. But the casting date is on the passenger side above rear frost plug.
    The serial numbers are, in my understanding, showing the engine assembly date of completion, using the 10,000 day julian calendar. And i understand that date should match the normal calendar date stamped on the i.d. pad located at front , top of the 440 on driver side of the distributor.
    I can only assume these numbers have the same purpose on any mopar engine block? On my block the casting number is about 1 month before the engine assembly date. And engine assembly date is usually about 2 months before the car came off the assembly line.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020 at 12:48 PM
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. volunteer

    volunteer Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2019
    Location:
    Kamloops, B.C.
    Yes, I am aware you have a 440, however, all of my previous (35 or so) Mopar blocks have had the originally as cast-in date of manufacture numbers on them. These cast numbers can be ground off but not re-applied but, the 'stamped' numbers and letters can be ground off (neatly) and re-applied using the special stamping tools (which are easily purchased) into any matching-numbers configuration as you wish. One easy example is to add HP beside the 440 on to the special (RB-only) top-front pad area, when you have the non-HP (350 hp) block - and desire a Super Commando, Magnum or TNT.
    I may have missed something in the previous posts but all I was wondering is what precisely is the (as-cast) Date number on the side of your 440? Those 'stamped' numbers are too easy to alter so do not mean much - at least to me. Your best bet, if desiring 'matching-numbers' for a resto/date-coded engine would be to carefully and discretely smooth off the existing digits - especially those 'painful' X's - and to start all over - with correct digits. Of course not everyone will agree. :mad:;)
     
  13. wildone

    wildone Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    My original intent was only to find out if these numbers had been tampered with? And if this block might have been stolen.? And could get me into trouble in future. The casting date is jan 25 68
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
  14. volunteer

    volunteer Active Member

    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    11
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2019
    Location:
    Kamloops, B.C.
    Understood. Is it standard or already bored? That will help determine fair market value. Anything else with it? Crank? Heads? etc? Or did you just need a good bare block? Good luck in whatever your project is. :cool:
     
  15. aussiemark

    aussiemark Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    528
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2014
    Location:
    Perth Western Australia
    I would just leave the stamped numbers alone if you file it all down and restamp it the stamps you use will have a different font and it will be more suspicious also there are marks left by the original machining if it is filed down these marks will be removed and the area will come out too smooth. There is a special acid that can be applied to a filed down pad that will show the depressions from the original stamping if you didn't do it you have nothing to hide so just ignore it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. fasjac

    fasjac Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    80
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2019
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I have never seen anything like that.
     
  17. wildone

    wildone Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2020
    Yes sir. Exactly as i thought. Im not going to play with it. Its a one off unique stuation.
     
  18. fasjac

    fasjac Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    80
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2019
    Location:
    Arkansas
    For me, kinda makes it neat. Especially if you get sonic tested and make sure it's good to go! I bet you would hard pressed to find very many.
     
    • Like Like x 1