440 build questions

[73Challenger]

Few questions about building a 440 to put in my Cuda.

1. 68 or 69 motor....one better than the other?

2. Want to get over 500hp, street use only, what is some good build combos?

 

[jon mopar]

well I though the differences were minor, but I know that in 69, the block got an added strengthening "rib" just above where the freeze plugs are. Some 68s had them, but they were late production 68s. That's about all I can say.

 

[Challenger340]

I'm sure many will Chime in soon with some GREAT 500hp Combos ?
However,
It would be really helpful if you could provide a "budget" for those goals ?

More than one way to "get there", and Trade-offs, according to money.

 

[73Challenger]

Obvioulsy I would like to keep the $ as low as possible, but I now that is a unrealistic goal. I would like to keep it under $3,000.

 

[moper]

There is no difference in 68 and 69 440s. The budget cannot pay for a compelte rebuild, never mind a serious hp performance engine. For 500hp, you'll have more than $1500 in the heads alone. I'd advise you to take a look at what you want the car to do and re-examine the budget. If you have a running mechanically solid engine, $1500 and some do-it-yourself bolt ons will get you close to a real 400hp.

 

[74CudaDave]

I'm redoing my 440 this winter (half way through so far) and I'm at the $4000 mark already, and this is a budget build - bore .030 over, Stealth heads, Purple Shaft, Edelbrock intake, the basics. I'm trying to stay away from aluminum rockers, stroker kits, multiple carbs, etc. I am hoping for around 400hp - more than that is where the real money starts to come in. Whatever you budget, allow another 30-50% for `unexpecteds'.

 

[moper]

Cost is very dependant on where you are, and the level of shop that does the work. As in most things, the cheaper the costs, generally, the lower the quality of work. What is fine for some applications, may hurt others. IMO, paying to top notch work is only a win win, as great machinjing can make cheaper parts perform better than expectations. That said, a basic rebuild, on average equipment, for average money, can make very good power so long as the pistons are replaced with something that give you more compression and performance valve reliefs to allow for performance cams and the camshaft chosen is matched well to the rest of the combo. You'll still end up spending close to $5KUS to reach a level of 400-450hp if you have nothing but a stock core engine to start with. But again, you might find your local shops are cheaper.

 

[73Challenger]

Lets take the machine work out of the equation and I do not want to go the stroker route. I am assuming I will have it bored 30 over. What pistons, heads, intake should I start looking at. Also, I want the cam to be very loopy.

 

[moper]

You want a "lopey" idle... not a "loopy cam"...lol. The problem with that is a lopey cam generally makes for a sluggish engine off idle. There are cams that are specifically designed to sound that way but still make decent power. So, for a fairly straight forward, economical build.. Pistons, I'd use KB hypereutectic flat tops set to pop up .010" from the deck. Re-use your stock rods but have them re-sized and good bolts installed. Re-use the crank. Grab the Stealth aluminum heads, have the valve job checked and the correct springs, retainers, and locks installed. You need to run the gasket 440Source says to and they are a little thicker, hence the above deck setting. The Comp Thumper cams are what you want for sound. I'd use the 279TH7. Run a set of Isky iron rockers, Street Dominator intake or the M1, a Street Avenger 870 vacuum secondary carb. I'd say that setup should get you an honest 1hp/cubic inch and it will cost around to $6K without assembly depending on your machinist.

 

[AtomicWedgie]

Man I wouldn't discount the stroker kit just yet. Read the 440source 500 kit discription. Very little work needs to be done to make it clear and you can do it yourself and then have the machine shop bore it for you. Same money to bore it .030 or .040 and you have a 500 inch wedge add a good dual plane intake,1 5/8 or 1 3/4 headers, 750 carb and maybe you can find a good set of used heads and u will have a strong running motor. No need to use roller rockers but stock rockers are more like a 1.4 ratio so if you can find a good set of used then that maybe a option. You may want to check out Hughes Engines for a cam selection. They get more lift with less duration and the LSA is less radical so it will idle nicely.

In my opinion a 500hp N/A motor is alot for a cruiser. They may say that 500hp is streetable but those motors need to be tended to alot more than a 400-450hp motor. They tend to load up a little in stop and go traffic. Just because it runs on pump gas doesn't make it a everyday/long trip cruiser. I have a 675hp stroke that runs on 93 octane but it is far from a cruiser. This is just my opinion so guys don't jump all over me.

 

[moper]

I disagree on the quality of Source stuff as far as "ready to run". So if you go that route, buy the kit, then have your shop carefully check it, and don't pay for their balancing. Have that done locally. If you go to the longer stroke, have the block sonic tested before you order the kit. I agree with that "500hp" mentality. At least 70% of all the guys that have "500hp" in a parking lot have no idea they have much less and 30% of that group would hate really having it and thee associated "stuff" that comes with it.

 

[Challenger340]

I disagree on the quality of Source stuff as far as "ready to run". So if you go that route, buy the kit, then have your shop carefully check it, and don't pay for their balancing. Have that done locally. If you go to the longer stroke, have the block sonic tested before you order the kit. I agree with that "500hp" mentality. At least 70% of all the guys that have "500hp" in a parking lot have no idea they have much less and 30% of that group would hate really having it and thee associated "stuff" that comes with it.

I'm 2nd on this about the 440 Source Rotating Assemblies, they are NOT perfect by any means, get it Checked !
As far as the balancing, well, all they do is weigh 1 Rod and 1 Piston, get a "Ballpark",
or,
they already have a "Ballpark" number written down somewhere as a reference(MOST LIKELY)
then,
as ordered, they simple spin the Crank to that number !

I've seen lots of Customer Supplied 440 Source rotating assemblies, and the Rods/Pistons Boxes have NEVER been opened !
Their "balancing"
is relative to "close", as in playing HORSESHOES, or HAND GRENADES !
Hey,
**** will Run !

 

[greenmonsta79]

Im building a 451 Stroker for my Challenger I already had a couple 400's and 440's so I took a Steel forged 440 crank out and found my best 400 block, I always loved the 440 but a 440 is some 60 lbs. heavier than a 400 the B engine isnt as tall as a RB so you have added strength and less torsional movement in the block. The 400 has the largest bore of any Mopar big block, and the fact that it will rev higher than the 440 is a added plus, also more clearance in the engine bay! Im figuring I shouldnt have too much more in it than the typical performance 440 build. I don't think your $3000.00 price tag is unrealistic for a decent street motor, you can pick up used parts here and there but you will be cutting it SUPER CLOSE!! Mopar=break out the wallet (but they don't break like the Chevy and Ford crap) so your money ahead in the long run!!!

 

[73Challenger]

I am in no hurry to get the build going............well actually I am, but $ says I am not. So shopping around and finding good deals may take time, but that is fine.

 

[Ariovistus]

Hello, A friend of mine found a 1970 440 on craig's list asking $1000. He scored it for $900! It had a complete rebuild! He has to get an aluminum water pump that goes in the right direction,but it was an awesome deal!

You may also try your local machine shops. A friend found a 69 440 (Unassembled) that someone did not finish and he was able to bring it home for $500! (Complete with .30 over TRW pistons and Crane Gold Race Roller Rockers!)

You never know; In today's economy, some people want to just get rid of 440's because of the high gas prices, and it makes it nice for us Mopar Hobbyists. Best wishes on your 440.

Ariovistus

 

[Juan Veldez]

Forged pistons, aluminum heads, 150 hp progressive NOS. Very street-able 350 hp while driving around and an extra 150 hp when you want it. NOS is the cheapest horsepower, but always remember: a little nitrous is good, a LOT of nitrous is very good, too much nitrous is very bad!