pschlosser
Well-Known Member
I've done roofing, in the past, in summer heat. The felt (black tar paper) is brutal to work over. You get heat from the sun above, ambient heat from the air, and lots of heat from below coming from that black tar paper.
73 Soft Pedal Learning Process
- Thread starter Cav73
- Start date
Happy 4th of July everyone. I am just following up.
It took some time to get one of the drums off, but I have now inspected all four wheels and I found no leaks beyond the passenger side caliper. I peeled back the rubber covers on both wheel cylinders in back, on each end. No leaks.
I saw no leaks on the fitting to the wheel cylinders.
Photos here show the inside of the driver side drum and drum cover. All parts are new.
As I said earlier, the wheels did not rotate easily at all, so having bought a new brake spoon, I have loosed the brake drum on each side. This was how I got the driver side drum cover off.
It took some time to get one of the drums off, but I have now inspected all four wheels and I found no leaks beyond the passenger side caliper. I peeled back the rubber covers on both wheel cylinders in back, on each end. No leaks.
I saw no leaks on the fitting to the wheel cylinders.
Photos here show the inside of the driver side drum and drum cover. All parts are new.
As I said earlier, the wheels did not rotate easily at all, so having bought a new brake spoon, I have loosed the brake drum on each side. This was how I got the driver side drum cover off.
Here are photos of the passenger side drum.
I loosened up each drum about 30 clicks. When I remounted the wheels, they are definitely not as tight as they were before. However, I can't give the tire a hard twist and watch it spin freely.
Each side slows down quickly.
Not having worked on drum brakes before, I don't have the feel for this yet. I checked out videos on it though, including one by Uncle Tony's Garage, and it seems like a very loose, near free rear wheel spin is OK for drag racers and burnouts. Not the plan for this car.
That said, I had trouble figuring out:
1. What is the normal start point for adjusting the drums? Is it when they are so loose they spin 100 revs without stopping? Seems like anything that loose might disengage the pads or adjustor wheel or something - but just guessing.
2. How to make sure each wheel spins the same. Well, the rear wheels spin together. It is not like the front where you can get an idea easily of what each is doing and match them after adjusting the first wheel.
Anyway, I think I can adjust the rear wheels further if needed, once I bleed the lines and top off the MC. Hopefully the issue was the leak in the right front caliper fitting or the fluid being low because it was never filled all the way. I found out there is nothing in the power steering pump either, so anything is possible.
I loosened up each drum about 30 clicks. When I remounted the wheels, they are definitely not as tight as they were before. However, I can't give the tire a hard twist and watch it spin freely.
Each side slows down quickly.
Not having worked on drum brakes before, I don't have the feel for this yet. I checked out videos on it though, including one by Uncle Tony's Garage, and it seems like a very loose, near free rear wheel spin is OK for drag racers and burnouts. Not the plan for this car.
That said, I had trouble figuring out:
1. What is the normal start point for adjusting the drums? Is it when they are so loose they spin 100 revs without stopping? Seems like anything that loose might disengage the pads or adjustor wheel or something - but just guessing.
2. How to make sure each wheel spins the same. Well, the rear wheels spin together. It is not like the front where you can get an idea easily of what each is doing and match them after adjusting the first wheel.
Anyway, I think I can adjust the rear wheels further if needed, once I bleed the lines and top off the MC. Hopefully the issue was the leak in the right front caliper fitting or the fluid being low because it was never filled all the way. I found out there is nothing in the power steering pump either, so anything is possible.
I wonder if its the residual valve in the master cylinder disc and drum master cylinders are different I had a problem one time when I added front discs on a all drum car and I removed the residual valve on the side that runs the front brakes then it was fine
Ricks72Chlgr440
Well-Known Member
After you rebuild you adjust each side so you just start to hear the drum dragging. After you put some miles on the car, go back and readjust. You don't want them too tight or they can really drag because of the heat of friction. Just adjust for some drag and do a test drive checking for adequate braking. When all is good, drive it for awhile and come back and readjust. You'll be good for a long time after that.
Challenger RTA
Well-Known Member
I don't know if this will help your sort your problem out.
The E brake is misnomer. It is parking brake first. If it is not used that way it won't work as an E brake in time of need.
That being said. Being in working order, every time it is used it adjust the shoes to the drum. It will be snug and probably rub a little bit that you can hear as you turn the wheel. If it's not adjusted out it will be a soft and not a full pedel.
Then if a wheel cylinder is hanging up. Then again a soft pedal. Every little minus addeds up to a bigger Minus!
Also as MILOJ mentioned. The residual valve not workin will give you a soft panel too. Another minus to add up. It holds 5 to 7 psi in the rear lines. If not it takes a few pumps to expand everything to where it needs to be.
The E brake is misnomer. It is parking brake first. If it is not used that way it won't work as an E brake in time of need.
That being said. Being in working order, every time it is used it adjust the shoes to the drum. It will be snug and probably rub a little bit that you can hear as you turn the wheel. If it's not adjusted out it will be a soft and not a full pedel.
Then if a wheel cylinder is hanging up. Then again a soft pedal. Every little minus addeds up to a bigger Minus!
Also as MILOJ mentioned. The residual valve not workin will give you a soft panel too. Another minus to add up. It holds 5 to 7 psi in the rear lines. If not it takes a few pumps to expand everything to where it needs to be.
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Thanks MILOJ; this car had the disk brakes stock. I am not sure if it had power brakes when made as the original fenders and fender tag were missing. I think I will know more when I get the brakes bled. There was a very minor leak, and the MC was 1 inch down. That did not help.
Thanks Ricks72Chlgr440; I can still back the rears off more, but I already did so quite a bit. They are not as tight as they were initially but they grip and won't spin with light dragging. I am not sure how far I can back off but apparently it would be quite a bit more. I will adjust after I bleed the brakes.
Challenger RTA, I understand on the E-Brake - really a parking brake. I have that loosened up a lot. Cables are new so no corrosion on the adjustor.
Once I bleed the brakes I will adjust again, and see what happens. The wheel cylinders are new so hopefully they aren't sticking. I am not sure how to test - I guess observe with someone else hitting the pedal with the wheels and drums off. Unless that would hurt something.
I adjusted the rear brakes with the drums off, rotating the adjustor wheel while pushing on the metal tab that keeps it from rotating forward and "loosening". I had to go around a couple of times to get the drums as loose as they are now, and they still seem pretty tight. The pads are brand new.
Ricks72Chlgr440
Well-Known Member
Once you get the brakes adjusted so the drum slides on pretty easily, put a flat blade screwdriver (or old school adjusting "spoon" tool) into the access hole on the inside of the brake backing plate. There should be plastic or rubber plugs covering the holes but many cars don't have them anymore. With the drum off you can put the screwdriver in and see where it contacts the star wheel, then put the drum on and click the wheel until rotating the drum produces a slight drag. My cars have a sure grip differential which makes rotating the drum or wheel assembly nearly impossible. I have to click the star wheel until there is some drag putting the drum back on. It is much easier on cars with an open rear end!
pschlosser
Well-Known Member
you can manully adjust if you want.
it looks like there are self adjusting brakes in the rear. adjusting the brakes in the rear is pretty easy, when your braking system is fully functioning. if they are too tight, you must manually loosen them. but when too loose, placing the car in reverse and driving rearward, brake abruptly. this will usually advance the star wheel one notch. keep repeating until they self-adjust to the sweet spot. since backing up is a common activity, they tend to stay adjusted, self-correcting as needed.
it looks like there are self adjusting brakes in the rear. adjusting the brakes in the rear is pretty easy, when your braking system is fully functioning. if they are too tight, you must manually loosen them. but when too loose, placing the car in reverse and driving rearward, brake abruptly. this will usually advance the star wheel one notch. keep repeating until they self-adjust to the sweet spot. since backing up is a common activity, they tend to stay adjusted, self-correcting as needed.
Ricks72Chlgr440
Well-Known Member
In all the cars I've had with drum brakes over the decades, very few self adjusters have worked as they were designed. The one car I had that DID work required me to go pretty fast in reverse then hit the brakes for the adjuster to work properly, as you mentioned. Had to do this several times as well.
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