Isky Rocker Arms in a 440

[greatscot3]

Hello

I am looking for help with a valve train issue I am having with my 69 440.
I have been trying to shoehorn my rocker shafts, arms, springs and spacers back onto the heads and I am noticing a couple things that are not right with it.
I am running Mopar Performance rocker shafts and Isky 1604 iron rocker arms with adjusting studs and lock nuts.
After setting up the left and right (intake and exhaust) rocker arms on the driver's side shaft with the spacer springs, I am having a hell of a time getting the rocker arm tips to line up in the centers of the valve stems. The Mopar Performance bolts and half moon washers or spacers look different to me from one side to the other and it is very hard to get them to tighten down and lay flat on the rocker shafts and separate the rocker arms properly.
I went to Isky's site and saw that the rocker arms that I have are sold with spacer springs and I wonder if using stock spacer springs might be the problem.
Has anyone else encountered a similar problem?
Thanks for any help you might have.

 

[ramenth]

Does Isky also offer the shaft spacers? From the pic it looks to me that rockers aren't lining up because the spacers aren't allowing them to. A call to Isky's tech line might be the route to go.

 

[Cranky]

On #3 intake, is the clamp worn next to the rocker? What I've done over the years is grind off the 'offending' tabs. Make sure the grinds are smooth when you are done. I also get rid of those springs and use solid spacers that way there's no pressure against the spacers. I've used those rockers for many years and they work well with solid roller cams but don't seen to work well with non roller solid lifter cams....well, at least not on one. I ran an Isky .660 lift roller and a buddy ran a mechanical .610 lift and he couldn't keep the adjusters from backing off and I never touched mine. I turned my engine 7300 and he only went to 6800. Maybe his balance job wasn't as good? I do know that crankshaft harmonics will transmit a lot of vibration into the valve train and it already produces enough by itself....

 

[greatscot3]

On #3 intake, is the clamp worn next to the rocker? What I've done over the years is grind off the 'offending' tabs. Make sure the grinds are smooth when you are done. I also get rid of those springs and use solid spacers that way there's no pressure against the spacers. I've used those rockers for many years and they work well with solid roller cams but don't seen to work well with non roller solid lifter cams....well, at least not on one. I ran an Isky .660 lift roller and a buddy ran a mechanical .610 lift and he couldn't keep the adjusters from backing off and I never touched mine. I turned my engine 7300 and he only went to 6800. Maybe his balance job wasn't as good? I do know that crankshaft harmonics will transmit a lot of vibration into the valve train and it already produces enough by itself....

Good observations and ideas, thanks.
All of the clamps and bolts are brand new mopar performance but you are right, they look different when looking at the little bent tabs. Usually, one is not bent as much as the other. I tried to place the less bent side of the tab for the best advantage in placing the rocker tip over the valve stem but they still are not lining up properly.
As a matter of fact, I did grind the tabs off of an old set of the clamps and got it all together, then figured I might have screwed up the placement of the intake and exhaust rocker arms because when I set it up I did not realize the rockers were different.
I wasn't comfortable with having ground the tabs off of the clamps and decided to replace them and make sure I had the rocker arms in right.
Its beginning to look like what I had in there was a lot closer to right than what I did yesterday.
I am going to get ahold of Isky this morning and ask them what is up with all that. I have way too much money into that engine to try to start it when I'm not sure its right.
Thanks again for your ideas.

 

[Cranky]

It's been a few years since building any kind of race engine but I've noticed that you have to 'make' dang near everything fit right because a lot of it just doesn't 'bolt on' straight out of the box....like the issues you're having for one. Don't know if Isky makes spacers as I've never really checked but they may have produced those rockers based on the older heads that used blocks instead of having the pedestals cast into the top of the heads. The older heads were machined flat and you used blocks that fit over the shafts and then you bolted it all down to the head. That style of rocker has been around forever....but I'd run these before I'd run anything full of needle bearings.

 

[greatscot3]

Isky finally gets back

After begging Isky to send me info on my rocker arms, I found out that I had the right idea grinding the tabs off the rocker arm shaft hold downs but they either didn't have or didn't send the shims you are supposed to use to set the right distances between the shaft towers and the rocker arm tips and valve stems.
The rocker arms are supposed to be sold with a kit that includes 8 custom cut springs and 32 shims but that was more than 18 years ago so who knows what they were doing back then. I got the springs but never did get the shims I was supposed to have to go with them.
I have the shims on order now from Isky and they are 40 effing dollars but glad I looked into it. It wouldn't have lasted long without those shims.
Thanks for the help on this you guys.

 

[Cranky]

I run mine without springs and make my own shims and spacers....

 

[Cranky]

Not sure if you're still following this thread but I just found some info when I was cleaning up a hill of paper work from many years of storage and one page was from Iskenderian. Isky says that the 'turned up' ends of the 1/2 moon clips that hold the shaft to the rocker stands need to be cut off or ground off to allow the rocker arm to line up with the valve stem. It goes into what the springs are and how then go on but that's easy to figure out.... Just thought I'd put that on here....

 

[ramenth]

Not sure if you're still following this thread but I just found some info when I was cleaning up a hill of paper work from many years of storage and one page was from Iskenderian. Isky says that the 'turned up' ends of the 1/2 moon clips that hold the shaft to the rocker stands need to be cut off or ground off to allow the rocker arm to line up with the valve stem. It goes into what the springs are and how then go on but that's easy to figure out.... Just thought I'd put that on here....

Cool info! Sometimes keeping all that paperwork around can pay dividends. Nice find!

 

[greatscot3]

Thanks

I appreciate your getting back to me. What I found out was that I did have everything put together wrong (no washer type shims next to shaft towers) and it probably would have made quite a mess if I had tried to run it. There was something about the setup that just didn't seem right. Getting the right info and parts out of Isky was like pulling teeth. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was put on hold or told I'd get a call back and nothing. It turns out that they discontinued the rocker arm kit I have but they kept the same part number (1604) for another rocker arm kit. It also turns out they did not send shims with the discontinued kit I had which are definitely necessary. They sent me the wrong shims because of their part numbers and I finally got the right ones just the other day after several more calls. It was $46.00 with shipping for the right shims but at least now it will be right. What a racket.
Thanks again for your help and suggestions.

 

[Rob R]

Grind the ears on the hold down pads off...

 

[Cranky]

The old 1604 rocker has been discontinued for many years and they probably would rather just sell you the new ones instead of giving any support for the old ones. Too bad too because the old ones are a good rocker but so many today think it's better to go with rollers. Rollers are a bit easier on guides with the bigger lift cams but you won't see any gain in horse power on a dyno and after 300 passes with a 440 that saw 7000+ rpm on every pass, I'm convinced the old ones work. Also, you don't have to worry about filling your engine with tiny needles should one fail....