New Member with two Challengers

[340challconvert]

Gary
to FEBO from New Jersey
Great collection of Challengers!
I can feel your heart, soul and love of your cars in your writings; thank you for sharing!

 

[Stev-o]

Nice collection Gary! I'm curious on your thoughts of how the E Bodies handle compared to the modern counter parts? My buddy is trying to talk me into a retro but I'm holding tight on the Classic!

 

[Vaanth]

Nice collection Gary! I'm curious on your thoughts of how the E Bodies handle compared to the modern counter parts? My buddy is trying to talk me into a retro but I'm holding tight on the Classic!

Thanks. I like both in different ways. I'll keep the classic basically the same as it was, perhaps with some certain improvements, and the modern basically the same as it is. Others may merge those for a modernized classic, but that's not for me. I enjoy each as they are.

Comparing the handling of the old Challengers to the new Challengers is not a precise "this or that is better". The two new Challengers are essentially the same compared to each other with the same body, chassis, and engine, with the differences being automatic versus manual transmissions and the complementing rear axle ratios. The two old Challengers, both T/As, are similar in body, chassis, and transmissions, but differing in engines, and slightly differing rear axle ratios. I've only had the green one since 2021 although I was involved in its build in the late 80s. It actually needs more work to get it where it should be for its best handling. The orange one has only recently been put back on the road after about 20 years and it's a different car than it once was with its current 440. Plus it has little driving so far to compare its current handling just yet.

For the comparison, I'll compare the new to the orange Challenger as it was with the original 340 and when I drove it daily, and pushed it to extremes at times. I have not pushed the new Challengers to similar extremes.

The new Challengers handle well, are quite stable, and mostly controllable, although they can get squirrely with loss of rear tire traction. Side loading of the tires seems to hold well, especially the black T/A with its Continental tires. The bulk and weight of the new Challengers is noticeable, especially diving into a curve, but the factory Bilsteins and sway bars maintain control. The Scat Pack has 4-piston Brembo brakes which are excellent. The black T/A has 6-piston Brembo brakes which are beyond excellent.

The orange T/A, stock back then with a few improvements, handled very well, particularly compared to other muscle Mopars and similar cars of the day. The fast ratio steering made snapping through S-curves a breeze, albeit a bit light to the touch like any Chrysler power steering then. Diving into a curve with it was very controllable, and the car cornered flat and true up to the limit of tire adhesion. Rear tire traction loss could make it squirrelly as well, but it was controlled a little more readily, possible due to the less weight and bulk leading to a quicker return. This car forced me to wear seat belts, which I had rarely done prior. The first time I dove at speed into a sharp left turn, I found myself sitting on the console. The T/A brakes, power disc and 11" drum, actually worked very well, and pulled the car down from speed with good balance better than anything else I saw back then. My T/A embarrassed many so-called sports or handling cars in navigating curvy roads.

Comparing the old to the new is partially "apples to apples", but also "apples to oranges". The 392 in the new cars readily outpowers the 340, although the current 440 with 4.10 gear can give them a run on takeoff. The greater multiple speeds and spread of the new transmissions give a big edge over the superb, yet limited, three speed 727s of the old Challengers. The lighter weight and less bulk of the old Challenger does seem to make it more nimble, and comparable to pushing the side forces in curves. Although I have not pushed the new Challengers to the same extremes, it feels like the old is at least as good, possibly a little better, in hard turns and switchback. Steering feel is better in the new Challengers. The 1970 T/A brake system and 70s/80s radial tires do very well, but the 6-piston Brembos and Continentals do better, even with an extra ~1000 pounds bearing on them. The 4-piston Brembos falls in between, but not so far better than the old on the lighter car.

In sum, overall, the new Challengers can be considered to generally handle better, but the old Challenger still holds up well, and can be more fun exercising its handling capabilities. If the orange one had its 340 back, maybe some further tweaks or with some more hard core suspension improvements and with decent tires, its handling could then close the gap. The personalities, feel, and approach of the new versus old makes that handling gap to be a somewhat unclear and variable difference.

 

[Challenger RTA]

Welcome to FEBO. I thought I counted 4 challengers not 2.Or is that what you tell your spouse.

 

[Vaanth]

Hello,

My name is Gary and I've been working on Chrysler products since I was eight years old and have been driving them almost as long. I have several Mopars and also recently joined For A-Bodies Only and For B-Bodies Only. I'm a retired engineer that has worked in the defense industry, satellite communications, telecommunications, computer systems administration, data center builds and operations, and my last 14 years were at Google as a hardware test engineer and technical writer.

I have two E-bodies:

- 1970 Challenger T/A: I have owned this T/A since 2021. The previous owner found it sitting partially disassembled, missing a lot and looking rough in ~1987 without the original engine, transmission, or rear axle. I helped with the restoration, mostly the mechanical side. He drove it to some shows, but it sat outside in the dirt until he moved, then he parked it at his new place. It sat in a garage, never cranked, for 25 years and then I got it. It needed a lot to clean up to the undercarriage and other things. I got it running and have it running fairly well now. It's a 1972 340 built to 1970 specs with a Direct Connection .455" cam and electronic ignition, with a Trans-Go equipped 1972 727 transmission that I did in 1989. It had late 80s reproduction mufflers from Year One on it which I replaced with NOS mufflers I bought in 1979. They sound better now. Suspension is mostly stock with urethane sway bar bushings, 440 torsion bars and gas shocks. It came with regular power steering but I've added my T/A steering box and fast ratio pitman arm from my other T/A, plus a 1970 C-body idler arm. Brakes are stock with 80s Mopar semi-metallic pads. It was originally equipped with a 3.55SG rear axle, but has a 3.91SG now. The wheels are the original 15x7 Rallye wheels from my other T/A replacing the 15x6.5 Rallye wheels that were on it when I got it. Although okay at this point, it's slated for more work.
View attachment 128548

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- 1970 Challenger T/A: I got this T/A when I was a senior in high school in 1976. The previous owner, with whom I worked, heavily abused it. He offered it for sale when it began running badly. I did not know what the T/A indicated. I wanted the 340 Six Pak to swap into my 318 Duster, so I bought it. I quickly learned what the car was, so I fixed the bad running engine, and started correcting the abuse and it was my daily driver for several years. Over time, it went through many changes. I got a 1973 Twister for my daily driver, which I still have, and at this point the T/A had Appliance headers, Direct Connection Hemi grind cam and electronic ignition, plus homemade side outlet exhaust, but not the T/A exhaust which was damaged and missing a tailpipe when I got it. The cam wiped a lobe, so the car got parked and disassembled, and sat for years while I acquired and worked on other things. Now it's freshened up, painted, and has a 440 Six Pack in it. I have the original engine, but the original transmission was case damaged by the previous owner with maximum RPM neutral drops and replaced by a shop. I built the 1969 440 and 1973 Trans-Go equipped 727 transmission in it now in the early 90s with dual quads for my brother's 1966 Belvedere with 4.30 rear gear. That car became something else and I've held onto the combination. The 440 is mostly stock with a Direct Connection .484" cam. It originally had a 3.91 Sure Grip, but that entire axle went into the green one, and it now this one has a 4.10 Sure Grip 8-3/4 axle. Suspension is mostly stock with higher arch rear springs from General Spring, urethane sway bar bushings, 440 torsion bars, and gas shocks. My T/A steering box and fast ratio pitman arm is on the green T/A. This one has a rebuilt steering gear with police reaction springs, ProForged fast ratio pitman arm, and a 1970 C-body idler arm. Rear brakes are stock and the front has been upgraded to 11.75" rotors with 80s Bendix semi-metallic pads. Wheels are Super Coupe 15x8 rear and Magnum GT 15x7 front with Rallye center caps. I repainted and hand "flaked" the wheels and caps. The paint and some body work did not turn out well. I plan to try to improve the paint some, and put on some 10 year old reproduction stripes for now while I do other projects. I have NOS stripes I bought in 1984 for it, but I'm not sure if the adhesive is still good on those. I'll hopefully rework it better later.

View attachment 128554View attachment 128555

View attachment 128557

View attachment 128552

Both of these are not real original, but like all my others, they are mostly stock or stock appearing with certain improvements.


Although not E-bodies I also have these two Challengers:

View attachment 128566

The Granite gray one is a 2021 R/T Shaker Scat Pack with 392 and 6-speed manual transmission with red/black leather interior. The Pitch black one is a 2017 T/A 392 and automatic transmission with black leather interior. I ordered this one in 2017. It has my name on the original window sticker.

I posted in the welcome wagon a couple of years ago. I've added the stripes to my Challenger T/A after doing some paint correction work, including a different engine callout for its 440. I can't update the original posting pictures, so I'll update with a "reply".

Following are some pictures with the new stripes today:

I also added R/T stripes to my 2021 Challenger R/T Scat Pack Shaker a few months ago. Following are some pictures of it:

 

[AUSTA]

Hello,

My name is Gary and I've been working on Chrysler products since I was eight years old and have been driving them almost as long. I have several Mopars and also recently joined For A-Bodies Only and For B-Bodies Only. I'm a retired engineer that has worked in the defense industry, satellite communications, telecommunications, computer systems administration, data center builds and operations, and my last 14 years were at Google as a hardware test engineer and technical writer.

I have two E-bodies:

- 1970 Challenger T/A: I have owned this T/A since 2021. The previous owner found it sitting partially disassembled, missing a lot and looking rough in ~1987 without the original engine, transmission, or rear axle. I helped with the restoration, mostly the mechanical side. He drove it to some shows, but it sat outside in the dirt until he moved, then he parked it at his new place. It sat in a garage, never cranked, for 25 years and then I got it. It needed a lot to clean up to the undercarriage and other things. I got it running and have it running fairly well now. It's a 1972 340 built to 1970 specs with a Direct Connection .455" cam and electronic ignition, with a Trans-Go equipped 1972 727 transmission that I did in 1989. It had late 80s reproduction mufflers from Year One on it which I replaced with NOS mufflers I bought in 1979. They sound better now. Suspension is mostly stock with urethane sway bar bushings, 440 torsion bars and gas shocks. It came with regular power steering but I've added my T/A steering box and fast ratio pitman arm from my other T/A, plus a 1970 C-body idler arm. Brakes are stock with 80s Mopar semi-metallic pads. It was originally equipped with a 3.55SG rear axle, but has a 3.91SG now. The wheels are the original 15x7 Rallye wheels from my other T/A replacing the 15x6.5 Rallye wheels that were on it when I got it. Although okay at this point, it's slated for more work.
View attachment 128548

View attachment 128549

View attachment 128553
View attachment 128550
View attachment 128551


- 1970 Challenger T/A: I got this T/A when I was a senior in high school in 1976. The previous owner, with whom I worked, heavily abused it. He offered it for sale when it began running badly. I did not know what the T/A indicated. I wanted the 340 Six Pak to swap into my 318 Duster, so I bought it. I quickly learned what the car was, so I fixed the bad running engine, and started correcting the abuse and it was my daily driver for several years. Over time, it went through many changes. I got a 1973 Twister for my daily driver, which I still have, and at this point the T/A had Appliance headers, Direct Connection Hemi grind cam and electronic ignition, plus homemade side outlet exhaust, but not the T/A exhaust which was damaged and missing a tailpipe when I got it. The cam wiped a lobe, so the car got parked and disassembled, and sat for years while I acquired and worked on other things. Now it's freshened up, painted, and has a 440 Six Pack in it. I have the original engine, but the original transmission was case damaged by the previous owner with maximum RPM neutral drops and replaced by a shop. I built the 1969 440 and 1973 Trans-Go equipped 727 transmission in it now in the early 90s with dual quads for my brother's 1966 Belvedere with 4.30 rear gear. That car became something else and I've held onto the combination. The 440 is mostly stock with a Direct Connection .484" cam. It originally had a 3.91 Sure Grip, but that entire axle went into the green one, and it now this one has a 4.10 Sure Grip 8-3/4 axle. Suspension is mostly stock with higher arch rear springs from General Spring, urethane sway bar bushings, 440 torsion bars, and gas shocks. My T/A steering box and fast ratio pitman arm is on the green T/A. This one has a rebuilt steering gear with police reaction springs, ProForged fast ratio pitman arm, and a 1970 C-body idler arm. Rear brakes are stock and the front has been upgraded to 11.75" rotors with 80s Bendix semi-metallic pads. Wheels are Super Coupe 15x8 rear and Magnum GT 15x7 front with Rallye center caps. I repainted and hand "flaked" the wheels and caps. The paint and some body work did not turn out well. I plan to try to improve the paint some, and put on some 10 year old reproduction stripes for now while I do other projects. I have NOS stripes I bought in 1984 for it, but I'm not sure if the adhesive is still good on those. I'll hopefully rework it better later.

View attachment 128554View attachment 128555

View attachment 128557

View attachment 128552

Both of these are not real original, but like all my others, they are mostly stock or stock appearing with certain improvements.


Although not E-bodies I also have these two Challengers:

View attachment 128566
very Nice
The Granite gray one is a 2021 R/T Shaker Scat Pack with 392 and 6-speed manual transmission with red/black leather interior. The Pitch black one is a 2017 T/A 392 and automatic transmission with black leather interior. I ordered this one in 2017. It has my name on the original window sticker.

 

[mrmopar340]

Love the louvers on the T/A. Both look good.