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Okay, let's hear it from the boys, maybe the girls too!

budascuda

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DrEamer

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I checked out the actual listing, and he marketing as:


"EV2 Orange 4 Speed 340 Six Pack

1970 Dodge Challenger T/A

Build sheet With Fender Tag!

I do not have the dash tag! Fender tag and build sheet ONLY!

The perfect addition to your man cave!


This car was parted out many decades ago"

While what he is selling is most likely legal to do, it however may enable someone with less then noble intentions to try and do a fake T/A. Which we all know is not legal, or our fear.
 

budascuda

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There is no nobility in his intentions, otherwise he would be selling the items for 200 bucks!
 

moparlee

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Note that he says the car was "parted out". Doesn't say what happened to the body and why block out the sequential number?
 

DrEamer

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It's an opportunity I'd rather not take advantage of...
For some reason jail seems to be an awfully popular place these days!

I completely agree. It looks like the seller trying to put enough verbiage in to attempt to wash his hands of anything that might be done with the items once the sale takes place. Greed is a powerful thing, but not worth jail to me.
 

340challconvert

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I don't get it.
Then again I don't get a lot of car related topics.

Just to help put this into perspective;
It is illegal to switch car serial numbers or use data tags and serial number tags from a "stripped out" car onto another car body.
Unscrupulous individuals will do this, recreating a car that might be more rare or valuable, and selling it to some unsuspecting person who buys the vehicle in good faith.
Certain collector cars have become so valuable over the last number of years and the scammers come out to try and make a a buck, illegally.
It basically is fraud and is a federal offense.
The seller of the tags and documentation listed for sale in the e bay ad is trying to word the sale in such a way, that he might not be liable for any misuse of the documentation if the tags are put onto another vehicle.
It hurts the hobby with scammers that try to do something illegal.
Hope this helps!
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budascuda

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And the fact that those rare and amazing cars deserve an un tarnished legacy.
 

Wonder Woman

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So you are saying. If you find yourself in possession of a car that may have been. I guess for lack of a better word .ALTERED.
You may have a problem?
 

340challconvert

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So you are saying. If you find yourself in possession of a car that may have been. I guess for lack of a better word .ALTERED.
You may have a problem?

Potentially
Many issues could arise
Car could have been stolen and re-bodied
Car might have body stampings not matching the serial plate and vin
Car could have been a base model, with pedigree numbers added and sold to someone unknowingly.
If found to be falsified; the car could seized for a background check and returned to real owner
Could be difficult to title.
Negative consequences are limitless!
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budascuda

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Everybody involved would have a problem if the alteration was meant to deceive someone, for what ever reason.
 

340challconvert

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Everybody involved would have a problem if the alteration was meant to deceive someone, for what ever reason.

budascuda
You make a great point
I just read the most recent New Jersey statute on VIN fraud and alternations
Generally, as per the statutes from various states, there must a knowledge of the alterations, or fraud or intentional fraud in order to violate the law.
Though in most cases, if the vehicle were stolen and altered, and sold to someone who unknowingly bought the car, the buyer would be held harmless, even though they may have to forfeit ownership back to the rightful owner contingent on specific circumstances.

I did research on this a number of years back because in August, 1989 I had a 1971 Challenger RT, 383 - 4p car in blue on blue, no vinyl top stolen from me in West New York, NJ. Car was never recovered.


I still have all of the ownership paperwork and title to the car. Almost makes me want to pursue this again.
A little long shot fantasy may be?

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budascuda

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Thanks Paharamia, but I am really sorry to hear that your car was stolen. even though it was way back, things like that never really go away! At least that has always been the case with me, as I have had this kind of thing happening to me a few times.
I still remember the box of tools I had put together for my apprenticeship as a carpenter.
It was gone the second day at work! I had no recourse, the person who stole the box outed himself by not showing for work after that and later on, I heard that he had left the country!( his visa had expired) At least that was a good thing for everybody.
If you don't mind me saying, judging by your various posts, you are a very resourceful person, if I were you, I would follow up on the car and see what comes up. The data collecting systems are more advanced now and available to the public, you do have a chance!
Hey, people buy lottery tickets!
 

DrEamer

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budascuda
You make a great point
I just read the most recent New Jersey statute on VIN fraud and alternations
Generally, as per the statutes from various states, there must a knowledge of the alterations, or fraud or intentional fraud in order to violate the law.
Though in most cases, if the vehicle were stolen and altered, and sold to someone who unknowingly bought the car, the buyer would be held harmless, even though they may have to forfeit ownership back to the rightful owner contingent on specific circumstances.
I did research on this a number of years back because in August, 1989 I had a 1971 Challenger RT, 383 - 4p car in blue on blue, no vinyl top stolen from me in West New York, NJ. Car was never recovered.


I still have all of the ownership paperwork and title to the car. Almost makes me want to pursue this again.
A little long shot fantasy may be?

View attachment 56440

I too am sorry to hear about your stolen Challenger. As far as tracking it back down, it might have gotten harder in some ways because of privacy laws. About ten years ago, I requested information from the state of Oregon to confirm that I had unknowingly bought my old 1972 Chevy Blazer back 22 years later. The requirements to get the records are that I had to prove I was the current owner of the vehicle, that I was a resident of the state, all with the provision that all records that I received would have all the names, including mine, would be blacked out on all the paperwork. I do not know if NJ laws are the same, but if the car is out of state, it might be very difficult. That said, if you decide to try and find it, I wish you the best of luck.
 
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