Slow Start

[gtw940]

Ok, finally got my motor back together and in the car. 400 stroked 499, trick flow heads and cam. calculated the compression to be around 11.5 to 1, It starts like its 13 to 1.
I have one of the powermaster mini starters and a 800cca red top. Man its hard to start. turns real slow almost stops on first turn then picks up and spins kinda normal. It fires off immediately once it spins. The initial spin is really slow, thats what makes me think the compression is higher not to mention the sound of the engine.
So I am not sure which way to go here, paralell another red top in the trunk, swap to 16v, get an XS Power with 1000cca. Kind of leaning towards 16V, possibly run a split system so to speak, 16V for start and ignition and 12V for water pump and the rest of the car. Think i would have to charge them separately which kills that idea. In the meantime i am going to clean connections and make sure the grounds are good. not sure which way to go.

 

[pschlosser]

hmm. it might be interesting to note how difficult it is to crank without the spark plugs installed. With them removed, compression ratio is off the table.

 

[Challenger RTA]

What do you have the initial timing set at. To much and I think you will tear the nose of the starer. Not sure of the numbers with higher compression.
Does it start like that after it's warm, stone cold or both.

 

[gtw940]

oh its definitely the compression! too long of a story to tell but it aint 11.5 to 1. very old rusty block and probably decked too much.

 

[gtw940]

initial timing is 17' . i am hoping its the grounds, it started easier on the run stand, not great but easier.

 

[Challenger RTA]

If you post what the build is. Someone here might know how to fix it. I know there are head shims but maybe not for that. There called head savers.

 

[Challenger RTA]

its the grounds,

That's was my first thought and relay.

 

[Challenger RTA]

Battey with low CCA.

A little more than a month ago I bought 3 batteries. One was for my truck. I had it check a while back and it showed low CCA. It would crank slow. If it sat for a few days it wouldn't start. Wouldn't you no it, it starts every time now! I didn't change the battery.

 

[gtw940]

SOLVED! I ran a new wire from the grounding terminal next to the battery in the trunk to bellhousing bolt next to starter. Starts like a Champ! Probably the best ground the engine has ever seen.
Used a #2awg. A 4 would probably have worked but why do it twice after all the other tries!

 

[pschlosser]

SOLVED! I ran a new wire from the grounding terminal next to the battery in the trunk to bellhousing bolt next to starter. Starts like a Champ! Probably the best ground the engine has ever seen.
Used a #2awg. A 4 would probably have worked but why do it twice after all the other tries!

Well done. Had I known the battery was on the trunk, this is where I would have started.

 

[moparleo]

Exactly. Typical tells the real story at the end.
That is why diagnosining is usually a waste of time. The op doesn't tell you the whole story.
Good info , good diagnosis, Bad info, bad diagnosis.

 

[gtw940]

???? i will leave this alone

 

[gtw940]

If you post what the build is. Someone here might know how to fix it. I know there are head shims but maybe not for that. There called head savers.

thanks, not worried about the compression. This was a mild track car previously, garaged since '85, really good shape for being from chicago. So typical drag setup, battery in the trunk, electric fuel pump, not much for accessories, wiring is original. I added electric water pump along with the big block. Slowly getting it back on the street and less track. This winter i will probably install a painless harness so i dont have to fool with 50 yr old wiring.
Anyway, I dont think the shop would do more than just clean the deck up so a gasket will work. The numbers we originally ran said 11.5, i doubt cleaning the deck would push that number too high. I installed a #2 ground and that has helped the starter tremendously but, still spins a little slow when warm or hot (better than it was) . Its like getting the first piston past tdc and then it starts spinning normal. I found the alternator belt a little loose, possibly not charging and less voltage for subsequent starts.
Now! with all that said... i used my c-tek charger to recon my red top, steady at 13.1V full charge, new ground wire #2 from battery to motor. I hit the starter and it fires immediately, no hesitation, fires on the first piston with compression. i was impressed and happy. Drive around the block with electric water pump, electric fans, electric fuel pump, and we are down to 12.3V on the battery, 13.1V from the alternator. So the next start is 12.3V and kinda slow, it works but its slow. I. only run the fuel pump and ignition box for starting then i switch on the water pump and fans come on with temparature. I tightened the alternator belt, charged the red top again, we will see later this morning after the neighbors are awake.
any reccomendations for a good alternator belt, 40 inch V belt.

 

[Challenger RTA]

battery in the trunk,

As Paul Harvey would say. " And now for the rest of the story"

By the why it looks very nice!

 

[Challenger RTA]

This winter i will probably install a painless harness so i dont have to fool with 50 yr old wiring.

I don't know about that! Painless I'm not sure! I would ask other members about that.

 

[Challenger RTA]

50 yr old wiring.

The wiring made now is made of SOY. It attracts rodents.
The 50 yr old wiring would be ok as long as it wasn't butchered. It's the bulkhead connections and the overloaded circuits. I would assess the wiring first.
1 head light relay circuit. 2 reroute Alternator and Battery circuit. 3 Maybe an Amp meter bypass.
Good grounds. Funny how you just experienced it.
Grounds: Headlight chassis grounds, Tail light sockets and parking light screw grounds, Chassis ground to battery, engine ground to battery, voltage regulator ground, ECU ground, starter relay ground, steering column ground wire, horn grounds, dash bolts for ground, Heater motor ground, wiper ground and switch panel ground, gauge light bar screws for ground and sockets

Dash lights a Brighter possibility

Dash lights a Brighter possibility. Took gauge cluster out to clean all connections. Found some light sockets rusted. Cleaned all cluster and switch terminals and grease. Had the dimmer switch out and jumped with a wire while working on it. I think I still have a problem with the socket for the...

www.forebodiesonly.com

One more that so many alternators have been deemed bad. The mounting holes on the engine , bolts and brackets. Just had it happen again to another car. Cleaned them up and back to normal.