1970 Challenger R/T 340 4bbl

[DetMatt1]

It looks as though I was being a little generous on the value of the original car in this thread, it's good that others chime in.
The interior of the NH car? Now I'm thoroughly confused...

 

[AZkcar135]

Interior is the easy part 2000 will get you everything from Dantes......... I paid 7k for my 70 v8 non R/T car. It has minimal rust, original engine.

 

[Shifty556]

It looks as though I was being a little generous on the value of the original car in this thread, it's good that others chime in.
The interior of the NH car? Now I'm thoroughly confused...

Oh, someone had posted a CL ad of a 1970 roller, non RT, a few posts back.

 

[DetMatt1]

I got that, but why would you want just the interior out of that car? If you pull the trigger on the first car you're going to need sheet metal not interior. Besides, there aren't any good pics of the interior of the NH roller so it would be impossible to put a price on it even as core parts.

 

[Shifty556]

Heh, no, I mean buy the roller and try to get the interior from the original, orange car

 

[Shifty556]

Sorry, worded my **** so wrong, haha

 

[DetMatt1]

You think he'd want to separate the interior from that car? He'd be stuck with an almost worthless rusty shell that'd be impossible to sell.

 

[Shifty556]

You think he'd want to separate the interior from that car? He'd be stuck with an almost worthless rusty shell that'd be impossible to sell.

I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

I got a call back from the NH car seller. Needs fenders, quarter skins, trunk lid. Guy seemed incredibly aggravated, getting 6-7 calls per day, people constantly checking it out and passing because it needs replacement panels.

I may have one more look at the orange one and check the rails again and floor. Maybe try to get him into that 6-8k range, but that may be a huge stretch given the starting price of 12700 (lol). I know more about cars than most of the people that I could get to come check it out with me (I'm NO expert, obviously), but I don't know if I could properly assess a frame.

Remember, though, that I'm getting tax title and license for free if I buy a car in the next week. I HATE how insurance companies do that...it's so enticing...they wanna start making money off of you asap

 

[Shifty556]

Honest opinion, though...say I can talk the guy down to 8k and the frame is ok. Factor in the savings from tax, title, license. Is this likely a car that's going to be a nightmare? Or should I just run and live to fight another day? Would any sale price be worth it? I'm not worried about being able to flip it for more cash, I do realize that it's not an R/T and may never be worth huge $$$. I don't crave a faithful restoration...I'll probably go with shortened rear axles and bigger rear wheels if I can get away with it without an extensive tub job. I'm not looking to restore this car to a showroom state. If that matters. Perhaps I should run, anyway?

I probably sound like I'm trying to talk myself into it, but I don't think that's the case. I'm not married to this particular car.

On the upside, it does drive, and I could possibly sell the 340 to put towards a 440.

 

[moparleo]

`Wait a week and see if you are still hot for this car. Bottom line is what is it worth to you. Just remember that rust is like cockroaches. For every one that you see, there are a hundred more hiding that you can't see. The seller is well aware of the true condition of what he is selling. Offer him half of what he is asking for and then walk away. Let him make the next move and keep looking elsewhere in the mean time. Remember another famous quote " only fools rush in" Signing off, make a decision.

 

[Shifty556]

`Wait a week and see if you are still hot for this car. Bottom line is what is it worth to you. Just remember that rust is like cockroaches. For every one that you see, there are a hundred more hiding that you can't see. The seller is well aware of the true condition of what he is selling. Offer him half of what he is asking for and then walk away. Let him make the next move and keep looking elsewhere in the mean time. Remember another famous quote " only fools rush in" Signing off, make a decision.

Good advice. I contacted him a few hours ago calling him out on the fact that it isn't an R/T and I asked for pics of floor and assurance that the frame was ok. I realize that he can lie just as easily about the frame, as pictures won't tell the whole story, but I assured him that I would not be purchasing if the rails were shot, and to be up front as to not waste both of our time.

I totally get the 'fools rush in' part, but I am in bit of a rush given the insurance situation. If it's overpriced by $1000 then I basically make that up with the insurance payout. From what everyone is saying, it's overpriced by more than $1000, though. I only have about 10 days to make a decision before that deal runs out. In the long run, I'd obviously rather miss out on those savings than get caught under a huge turd.

I am taking every bit of advice to heart and I REALLY appreciate everyone's responses. The fact that it has a full interior and that I can drive it while "restoring" it is a selling point, but I am certainly very hesitant due to the rust and how little I know about its extent. More info to come.

 

[DetMatt1]

If you're looking for a good, honest 70 Challenger project car, I have just the ticket for you but you won't be driving it while restoring.

 

[Shifty556]

PM'd you about it before you replied, haha. I did a full project on my 1992 3000GT VR-4, engine, trans, paint, bodywork, suspension, Brembo brake upgrade, electronics and tuning, etc... Learned it all as I went, but for the most part it was never off the road for more than a week or two at a time...being able to drive it while restoring will probably keep me more enthused about the project.

The 3000GT project taught me a TON about myself. I learned to weld, do minimal body work, paint (paint well, even), do wiring and electronic installs, internal engine work, all that stuff self taught over about 4 years, and it's instilled me with a lot of (maybe false) confidence. So, when I look at a car like the orange one, I don't get too discouraged. The 3000GT had been driven through 22 Illinois/Iowa winters (well, minus one winter where I painted it), and I never thought I'd see a more rusted car than that one!!

I see the good in both yours, Matt, and a running one that may admittedly be more hassle in the long run. Checking on frame of the OP car. Thanks, Matt!

 

[challenger6pak]

Have you made sure that the engine is a 340???

 

[Shifty556]

Have you made sure that the engine is a 340???

I want to say "lol", but given the nature of this thread and this pending transaction, that's a very fair question. I just took their word for it. I assume if they wanted to scam me they would say all sorts of stuff. But, they did lie about it being an R/T. I couldn't tell a 340 from a 318 just by looking... (I'm new to this muscle car thing, 7 years dealing with ONLY 3000GT's followed by a Dodge Viper)

So, fair question.

I'm not leaning either direction on this, yet. Supposed to get verification on the state of the floor and the rails within the hour. I don't know why I even ask, I don't know if I'll believe what I'm told, and pictures can be deceiving.

*edit* If these stars align, or I decide to take a plunge, I can remove the vinyl top, correct? I did some reading on that. Of course I'd have to hope that under the top isn't a huge mess of rust. I WANT to like this car. But I also appreciate you guys warning me that it could be a money pit disaster.

 

[moparleo]

Looking at your picture and having had several vinyl top cars myself, I can tell you by looking at the picture that the bottom of the rear window is heavily rusted and probably will require at least some metal replacement. The bulging under the center, rear of the top also indicates a lot of rust, maybe worse. Just figure the cost of a new top and labor into the actual value of the car, about a 1k discount off the asking price. I am not sure why the tax, license fees are that important. At least in California a car that old has nominal license fees. Around $80.00 bucks. And at 10% sales tax on a $15k selling price is only $1500. dollars. Not really a deal breaker. If that is that important, maybe you don't want to buy a car that you will be putting 10K into on top of the cost of the car. Almost never worth buying someone elses project unless you already have a parts car and the seller has a lot of other parts to throw in on the deal. To get a realistic value on any car , you have to assume the worst, like you might end up paying someone else to build it for you. And if you did, is it still worth it ? Not being a true R/T really hurts the actual value. If you were just looking at a very rusty car with no paint and the interior was in boxes would you still be this hot to buy it? Or would be looking at it with a more reasonable eye and see it for what it really is, not what it kind of looks like right now.

 

[Shifty556]

Well that's a fair point, too. Take away the paint, take out the interior in its current condition and have it sitting in boxes, yeah, I'd be less inclined to buy it. I can't argue that the way it kind of looks now makes it very enticing, you definitely hit the nail on the head.

The tax/title fees won't be the deciding factor, but hey, that little extra cash gets me a six pack carb or a couple new body panels, etc. I'm not hard up for money. In fact, I'm an IT administrator and sometimes I feel like I have just enough money to where I don't scrutinize things as much as I should, I just pull the trigger. I bought my Viper without much inspection, but thankfully that car was great.

When I look at a car with the interior ripped out, I just lose all motivation. I think if I got one like that I'd never start it, let alone finish it. My mindset may suck, and it may get me into a car that will be twice as bad in the long run to restore, but having a running car that looks passable from 30 feet away, that I can drive while working on, excites me more than a rolling chassis with little/no interior that seems like more of a mountain to climb. Human nature, I guess, I totally understand your point, though.

Dare I ask, is there any price that would make this worth it? 6k is out of the question. I may get it for 8k if it goes long enough without selling, months maybe. As it stands, the guy thinks 11k is the number. He just has SUCH a high opinion of the car. He also got back to me and said one side of the floor is getting rusty, and the other side is really not bad. Same with the rails. Not sure what to make of that.

In the end, if I decide to keep looking, yeah, I'll do that. I have my eye on several $25,000-range 70's, but I do want a little bit of a project. Just not a suicide-inducing money pit.

 

[moparleo]

Unless you buy one that has just had a rotisserie restoration, there will be plenty of things to keep you busy and still drive the car. Just why is this guy trying to sell his car for anyway ? Looking for something else ? He needs the money ? His motivations for wanting to sell the car are just as telling as yours are for wanting to buy the car. Who needs to do this deal more? You or him ??

 

[Shifty556]

His reason is the 68 Charger sitting in the garage. That's almost complete and he says he's burned out enough on that Charger that he wants to pay someone to complete it and doesn't have the heart to start another. I don't sense much b.s. coming from him, but I try to see the best in people. His Charger is certifiably bad ass.

I should be clear, I want a white 1970 Challenger with a 440 (eventually). A Vanishing Point Challenger, or "close" to one. I know it's not original, and I've called people out for doing less-original stuff, but it's what I want. I don't want a 71. I don't want it in black. I don't want a 340. For better or worse or everything in between, at least I know what I want.

While getting a 1970 in the $20-25k range would perhaps be more sensible...well, it's not that I don't have the money, I COULD do that. Now, would I have the balls to paint it and pull a numbers-matching motor out of a nice car? Nope. I don't get sentimental about cars, but that'd really be a dick move.

He needs the deal more than me, otherwise he wouldn't be selling it. Bodes well for me as I can walk away to try to get him to lower the price. My heart won't shatter if I don't get this particular one. Say I do replace both front fenders (~$900) and both rocker panels (~$320) roof skin (~$500) and he provides rear quarter skins and trunk floor. Then I pay someone to do that work, because it's not something I'm comfortable with ($???). I do small pieces of sheet metal repair as I feel comfortable. Body filler used on dings and nothing else, not going "full retard" with that stuff. I paint the car myself ($400 for materials because I know a guy, heh), because I'm more than comfortable with that.

If my starting point is, say, $8000 for the car...add $1700 in sheet metal, $1000 more in sheet metal as I discover other nastiness, who knows how much in labor, and paint it myself, that'll leave me with at least a somewhat decent start, I'd think. If my numbers are way off, please understand, I'm not the sharpest spoon in the drawer.

Now, I know that a bad frame is a deal-breaker, so while I can be crazy I'm not stupid. I don't care much about resale value. Heck, I bought a 3000GT and put about $20k into it, sold it for $10k. Bought a rebuilt title 700hp Viper, knowing that the resale value would take a hit and put it in a tree. I'm just the sorta person that knows what he wants. Sometimes I stumble across deals...sometimes I get myself into sticky situations. It's the nature of the beast, having more dollars than sense. Again, all input appreciated. I'm not trying to argue, but it's probably coming off that way.

 

[Shifty556]

Text I got from him this am...he was probably texting while driving, normally more eloquent than this...

"This guy offer me 10750 bc I told him about u...then tell U want the car or not I know the car its worth 12500 just because all the car it's together the engine and Trans work really good plus if ur going to repair the floors the frame it's real easy to fix I know that 11 is the right price"

I have a feeling it's walking time.