AC restoration or vintage air?

[booyaballer]

My recent plan was to refurbish my steering column and redo my electrical wiring with an AAW kit so I removed the column and dash. So of course when I saw the heater box so accessible, I figured I might as well rebuild that too. The snowball effect is picking up speed and would like some advice to redirect it.

Thanks to this forum I learned that my 70 Challenger was an AC car which I had no idea until i posted a photo of my "heater box." Apparently my car was setup in a AC delete configuration.

So if i want to restore my car to functioning AC, I will have to get a condenser, compressor, water valve, certainly other miscellaneous parts, and ensure that my heater core and evaporator work.

So it begs my question, will the cost to restore it be worth it or comparable to a new vintage air system which currently seems to cost about $2,500?

Thoughts? anyone else address the same dilemma?

Thanks!

 

[topknot]

man theres a guy near me selling his ac from his late 60s dodge for 100$ if yo could find a deal like that I think you would be further ahead.

 

[Challenger RTA]

There is a change coming to refrigerant. That might be the biggest factor in cost to AC replacement or repair. Phasing out of refrigerants.

Several alternatives are being considered to replace R-134A, each with its own set of advantages and challenges. Here, we’ll examine the most prominent contenders:

​

R-1234yf is a hydrofluoroolefin (HFO) that has gained significant attention as a successor to R-134A, especially in the automotive sector. It has a GWP of just 4, which is a dramatic reduction compared to R-134A. Research cost, availability and later recharge.
Just a heads up.

Benefits of R-1234yf:

• Drastically lower GWP, making it environmentally friendly.
• Similar thermodynamic properties, facilitating easier transitions in existing systems.

Despite its benefits, R-1234yf raises concerns regarding flammability. However, industry standards are being developed to manage this risk effectively.
Several alternatives are being considered to replace R-134A, each with its own set of advantages and challenges. Here, we’ll examine the most prominent contenders:

​

R-1234yf is a hydrofluoroolefin (HFO) that has gained significant attention as a successor to R-134A, especially in the automotive sector. It has a GWP of just 4, which is a dramatic reduction compared to R-134A.

Benefits of R-1234yf:

• Drastically lower GWP, making it environmentally friendly.
• Similar thermodynamic properties, facilitating easier transitions in existing systems.

Despite its benefits, R-1234yf raises concerns regarding flammability. However, industry standards are being developed to manage this risk effectively.
Several alternatives are being considered to replace R-134A, each with its own set of advantages and challenges. Here, we’ll examine the most prominent contenders:

​

R-1234yf is a hydrofluoroolefin (HFO) that has gained significant attention as a successor to R-134A, especially in the automotive sector. It has a GWP of just 4, which is a dramatic reduction compared to R-134A.

Benefits of R-1234yf:

• Drastically lower GWP, making it environmentally friendly.
• Similar thermodynamic properties, facilitating easier transitions in existing systems.

Despite its benefits, R-1234yf raises concerns regarding flammability. However, industry standards are being developed to manage this risk effectively.

 

[heminut]

The question you should ask yourself is do you prefer to keep things original or do you prefer to have a system that works better than the factory stuff. That should give you your answer.

 

[booyaballer]

Thanks for the information on the refrigerant.

I'm not that concerned with originality.

thanks.

 

[EV2RTSE]

Original under hood e-body a/c suction & discharge lines aren't the easiest thing to find if yours are missing, especially if you have a big block. Otherwise the other parts are still readily available. RV2 compressors are happiest running R12. You can still find it on places like Facebook marketplace, not cheap but something to consider in your decision. An original system can be made to work very well, with ice cold air.

Otherwise just get the conversion compressor kit which also has its advantages, less weight, uses less HP, etc.

 

[Xcudame]

Call Vintage Air. I'm pretty sure they sell a kit the will work with your factory AC dash and switch over to the more modern rotary compressor that uses a double v-belt pulley like original.

 

[Ronbo73]

I had to go down this exact route with my Barracuda. I had my original heater box/evaporator rebuilt many years ago before Vintage air etc. were around so I did not want to spend that money again. My car was a 318 and now a 440 6bbrl so I could not use the RV2 style compressor. I upgraded to a serpentine system from Eddie Motor Sports which came with a Nippondenso compressor. I could not use the factory A/C lines as a set because of the different connections, I only used parts of the A/C lines.
I ordered an condenser and dryer kit from Vintage air and the factory air Surefit reduced barrier modified hose kit. I had to return the hose kit because the kit does not have the correct size fittings to connect to the factory A/C connections. The condenser/dyer and the lines that come with this kit were used. I bought an new expansion valve with bypass like the factory one.
I went to a local shop that installs and repairs A/C systems for commercial trucks and trailers. They used part of my original A/C hose (the one with the larger nut) and all the rest new fittings and hoses to connect to the factory A/C box, compressor and condenser.
I had the system charged with R134A and the A/C works really well.


I did wrap the expansion valve tubing after this picture was taken.

​

 

[Katfish]

Ronbo,

Do you have additional details on this?

"I bought an new expansion valve with bypass like the factory one"

I'm going down similar path with my Gen3 swap.
Car runs great, want to get the AC going now.

Thx

 

[Ronbo73]

Ronbo,

Do you have additional details on this?

"I bought an new expansion valve with bypass like the factory one"

I'm going down similar path with my Gen3 swap.
Car runs great, want to get the AC going now.

Thx

Hello Katfish

I ordered the expansion valve from E-bay. Classic auto air also sells one. The price was more not including shipping. The E-bay one was cheaper including the shipping. The link is below for the one I bought and who I bought it from.

65-74 Mopar B-Body & E-Body A/C EXPANSION VALVE AC Air Conditioning 66 68 69 70 | eBay

 

[Katfish]

Thx, appreciate the info

 

[maxzcc]

My recent plan was to refurbish my steering column and redo my electrical wiring with an AAW kit so I removed the column and dash. So of course when I saw the heater box so accessible, I figured I might as well rebuild that too. The snowball effect is picking up speed and would like some advice to redirect it.

Thanks to this forum I learned that my 70 Challenger was an AC car which I had no idea until i posted a photo of my "heater box." Apparently my car was setup in a AC delete configuration.

So if i want to restore my car to functioning AC, I will have to get a condenser, compressor, water valve, certainly other miscellaneous parts, and ensure that my heater core and evaporator work.

So it begs my question, will the cost to restore it be worth it or comparable to a new vintage air system which currently seems to cost about $2,500?

Thoughts? anyone else address the same dilemma?

Thanks!

I am building a 1970 challenger convertible and am having a body shop install a factory firewall plate to accommodate the factory openings, so I understand your dilemma. The main concern for you is do you want it to look like it was a factory A/C, or is that not important to you. I have done both and the aftermarket systems work well, are easier to install and cheaper to buy. That being said when you look under the hood it is obvious that it is not a factory unit. The other thing to remember is that the aftermarket unit usually has an under-dash configuration for the evaporator/fan/vent and controls where the factory unit has an integrated control head, hidden evaporator and dash vents. If you have an A/C car and still have the control head, firewall holes and dash vents you are more than halfway there if you decide that is what you want to do. I am trying to build period correct so I am going with all factory components on a non A/C car which is a bit of a pain, but to me worth it.

 

[booyaballer]

I am building a 1970 challenger convertible and am having a body shop install a factory firewall plate to accommodate the factory openings, so I understand your dilemma. The main concern for you is do you want it to look like it was a factory A/C, or is that not important to you. I have done both and the aftermarket systems work well, are easier to install and cheaper to buy. That being said when you look under the hood it is obvious that it is not a factory unit. The other thing to remember is that the aftermarket unit usually has an under-dash configuration for the evaporator/fan/vent and controls where the factory unit has an integrated control head, hidden evaporator and dash vents. If you have an A/C car and still have the control head, firewall holes and dash vents you are more than halfway there if you decide that is what you want to do. I am trying to build period correct so I am going with all factory components on a non A/C car which is a bit of a pain, but to me worth it.

Originality is of low concern to me since my car was born a 318 column shift car and at some point, changed to a 360 crate engine with B&M automatic floor shifter. I undid that and added a silver sport 5 speed because, of course, I had to have a pistol grip manual. But I digress, I'm most interested in addressing the AC situation because my dash is out and the accessibility is there. I have the AC dash and controls and a newer system will probably be less headaches along the way or in the long run. So for now, I am leaning towards Vintage.

I really appreciate everyone's take on it and will add that I would have never attempted half the stuff I've done without forums like this and of course youtube!!

Thanks again!

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

Originality is of low concern to me since my car was born a 318 column shift car and at some point, changed to a 360 crate engine with B&M automatic floor shifter. I undid that and added a silver sport 5 speed because, of course, I had to have a pistol grip manual. But I digress, I'm most interested in addressing the AC situation because my dash is out and the accessibility is there. I have the AC dash and controls and a newer system will probably be less headaches along the way or in the long run. So for now, I am leaning towards Vintage.

I really appreciate everyone's take on it and will add that I would have never attempted half the stuff I've done without forums like this and of course youtube!!

Thanks again!

In addition to what's been said; be sure to check the integrity of the wiring harness under the dash, engine compartment, and all the way back through the trunk. With it all out you may want to upgrade the system to handle the loads of today's equipment the factory never forsaw. I have a 1970 Duster that had damaged & melted wiring so I went with the AAW wiring kit and redid everything bumper to bumper. May be worth looking into for peace of mind.

 

[slantfish]

If you go the Vintage Air route, be aware that you need to remove your dash for proper mounting of the box - the rear mounting bracket requires 2 holes drilled and the firewall requires 2 new holes for the front bracket. The kit uses a new control mechanism that mounts where your original controls are, this was an easy part of install. Check all boxes and parts on arrival, my kit was missing a couple items - they sent me new ones, but a little inconvenient to find out when you are in the middle of the installation.

 

[Raycuda]

The simple question is do you want an A/C system with 55 year old technology, or do you want a modern system?

 

[booyaballer]

In addition to what's been said; be sure to check the integrity of the wiring harness under the dash, engine compartment, and all the way back through the trunk. With it all out you may want to upgrade the system to handle the loads of today's equipment the factory never forsaw. I have a 1970 Duster that had damaged & melted wiring so I went with the AAW wiring kit and redid everything bumper to bumper. May be worth looking into for peace of mind.

Yeah, this all started because I'm redoing the wiring with a AAW kit. I started with the steering column and pulled the dash. Which of course exposed the AC box and got this snowball rolling. So i'd hate to reinstall the dash to then have to remove it a second time to install the vintage air. And like slantfish mentioned, it would be easier to install the vintage box without the dash.