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Aluminum Radiator question

DTCMMLF

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Tech head question....

Mancini (hope I can mention company names here? If not, Sysadmin, spank me and set me straight)
has a 3 core unit with 5/8 inch cooling tubes for under $250.00.
ECP has a 2 core unit with 1 inch tubes, again under $250.00.

I live in Alabama, so it gets warm. And as a side note I also spent a couple of years in Iraq, where it gets real warm.
As I understand it, the water can't just rush thru the radiator. It has to remain long enough for the heat to be extracted correctly.
Saw this issue with the HUMMV's in Iraq. Upgraded radiators manufacturer stated more flow but vehicles were badly overheating.
Water did not linger long enough in the radiator to properly remove the heat.

1 inch tubes sounds good, but will thos tubes being that larger size, will the unit actually remove more heat (restrict the water flow
thru the core) to be adequately removed from the system???

I am leaning toward the 3 core 5/8 tube unit, but am asking all here, with hopefully scads more experience with these newer radiators than I have,
for some guru guidance.
 

Chryco Psycho

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First welded is far better than epoxy type , second You MUST mount the alum radiator on some kind of rubber mounting system or the flexing of the body will cause the rad to fail , look at any newer car with an alum radiator they are always mounted in rubber mounting .
Usually 1" tubes are only 2 core so they will flow about t same amount of flow as a 5/8" 3 core.
 

Iguana

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Not an exact answer to the technical aspects of your question, but I'lI tell you what worked for me. My 440 was constantly pushing redline on temp when it was over 90 degrees outside. I installed a Champion 4 core and an aftermarket (I can't remember the brand) fan with more blades and I have not had a problem since.
 

DTCMMLF

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Not an exact answer to the technical aspects of your question, but I'lI tell you what worked for me. My 440 was constantly pushing redline on temp when it was over 90 degrees outside. I installed a Champion 4 core and an aftermarket (I can't remember the brand) fan with more blades and I have not had a problem since.
Good info. Most appreciated. My 440 is 40 over and in this Bama heat, I am fairly certain I would have issues.
Again, many thanks. First hand experience is what I look for....
 

moparleo

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Agree about the Champion Cooling product. More to cooling than just the radiator. Driving conditions affect it more. Low speed ( under 45 mph) driving requires a good shroud and if you use a mechanical fan , the proper blade count and mechanical/thermal clutch. Also the proper thermostat as well as internal radiator baffling. These all have a combined affect on the efficiency of the cooling system. Of course the engine needs to be properly tuned as well.
Talk to Mike Harding at Champion Cooling Systems 951-245-9464 ext 103 . Tell him that Leo from "Inland Mopars" referred you and he can get you all the info you need to do it right., Great people
 

Chryco Psycho

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I aree , if the timing is advanced properly temp drops , retarded timing increases heat .
 

NoCar340

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Decades ago, a magazine (I wish I could remember which, but I think it was Hot Rod or Car Craft) did extensive testing on radiators and their efficiencies. They used individual temperature probes in each row of various multi-row radiators. Much to their surprise and chagrin--being GM guys--they found that the water in the fourth row was actually being heated by the air that had passed over the first three rows.That radiator was less effective than its three-row equivalent. That's probably why Chrysler never made 4-row radiators.

That being said, those fellas were testing copper/brass radiators, which are far more effective at shedding heat than aluminum units. Aluminum is not better, it's just cheaper and uglier.

Because it was a basement-budget project, I bought a pure-Chinesium 3-row aluminum radiator with a molded top tank for my Valiant off eBay for $138 shipped a couple of years back. I painted it black to avoid the ghastly look of an aluminum unit. Most people don't even notice the radiator, much less the welds holding it together. It blends in like a stocker. The engine is a 10.5:1 W2 340 with a .587"-lift solid roller cam. With a factory 7-blade clutch fan, no shroud, and an NOS factory thermostat, the temp gauge stayed nailed to 180° during a week in the 90s this past summer, including a ton of idling time... in a cramped A-body engine bay with painted TTi step headers.

Make sure you use the right thermostat, meaning NOS Mopar for your application. Yes, it's going to be expensive, but the original design is an integral part of the cooling system's design. They're no longer available new, and nothing like them can be had at a parts store, the dealer, anywhere. It's important enough that Chrysler put this decal on motorhome air cleaners:

T-stat Decal.jpg



Notice the wording? "WILL CAUSE ENGINE OVERHEATING" rather than "MAY" or "COULD". If it doesn't look like the one on the decal, and is not made of solid brass with a copper slug, it's not the right thermostat. Mr. Gasket's copy will fail; it's the worst form of Asian trash. There were tons of complaints on the 'net about it awhile back.

OEM are the only ones I've used since the late '80s, and I've never had cooling issues. I daily-drove a '72 Charger with a modified 440 Six Pack for three summers in Atlanta, GA using the original 400's radiator. It never overheated, even on triple-digit days. I did, though, a few times. That car was flat black with a black interior and no AC... it was like driving Lucifer's oven.
 

NoCar340

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It runs pretty strongly, but I haven't fully opened it up yet. I'm hoping to take it to the strip this spring once I get the carb adjusted correctly. The idle's a bit, uh... hectic at the moment, but it's surprisingly nice to drive. It's smooth and tractable with the 3.23s in there at the moment. I don't know that Mom would've liked it for grocery duty, but its surprising how good it is at lower, daily-driver type use.
 

moparlee

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Decades ago, a magazine (I wish I could remember which, but I think it was Hot Rod or Car Craft) did extensive testing on radiators and their efficiencies. They used individual temperature probes in each row of various multi-row radiators. Much to their surprise and chagrin--being GM guys--they found that the water in the fourth row was actually being heated by the air that had passed over the first three rows.That radiator was less effective than its three-row equivalent. That's probably why Chrysler never made 4-row radiators.

That being said, those fellas were testing copper/brass radiators, which are far more effective at shedding heat than aluminum units. Aluminum is not better, it's just cheaper and uglier.

Because it was a basement-budget project, I bought a pure-Chinesium 3-row aluminum radiator with a molded top tank for my Valiant off eBay for $138 shipped a couple of years back. I painted it black to avoid the ghastly look of an aluminum unit. Most people don't even notice the radiator, much less the welds holding it together. It blends in like a stocker. The engine is a 10.5:1 W2 340 with a .587"-lift solid roller cam. With a factory 7-blade clutch fan, no shroud, and an NOS factory thermostat, the temp gauge stayed nailed to 180° during a week in the 90s this past summer, including a ton of idling time... in a cramped A-body engine bay with painted TTi step headers.

Make sure you use the right thermostat, meaning NOS Mopar for your application. Yes, it's going to be expensive, but the original design is an integral part of the cooling system's design. They're no longer available new, and nothing like them can be had at a parts store, the dealer, anywhere. It's important enough that Chrysler put this decal on motorhome air cleaners:

View attachment 78972


Notice the wording? "WILL CAUSE ENGINE OVERHEATING" rather than "MAY" or "COULD". If it doesn't look like the one on the decal, and is not made of solid brass with a copper slug, it's not the right thermostat. Mr. Gasket's copy will fail; it's the worst form of Asian trash. There were tons of complaints on the 'net about it awhile back.

OEM are the only ones I've used since the late '80s, and I've never had cooling issues. I daily-drove a '72 Charger with a modified 440 Six Pack for three summers in Atlanta, GA using the original 400's radiator. It never overheated, even on triple-digit days. I did, though, a few times. That car was flat black with a black interior and no AC... it was like driving Lucifer's oven.
So what brand thermostats do you use and where do you get them?
 

NoCar340

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As I mentioned above, NOS is your only option these days--eBay, car shows, etc. I started hoarding 'em awhile back so I'd never be without. I've got a pretty good supply on hand, in both 180°/185° and 195° versions. I bought a box of ten 180s for $65 at a show in 2019, so not everyone thinks they're gold-plated. Some eBay vendors certainly do.

The original vendor was Robertshaw, who I believe left the automotive thermostat business sometime in the 1990s. Summit, Jeg's, etc. used to sell them as "Robertshaw high-flow" thermostats, but I haven't seen them listed in those catalogs in a couple of decades. Stewart Water Pumps sells them for Chevrolet applications; for Chryslers they bond a plastic spacer to the Chevy part. It's not the durability that concerns me, it's the smaller aperture. Mr. Gasket makes, or at least used to make, a copy of the Chrysler/Robertshaw that was sourced overseas and should be avoided at all costs.

The exact-same item used in pre-'78 Mopars was original equipment in Ford's 351 Cleveland engines. If you look, you'll find much discussion online about how important that style stat is to properly cooling the temperamental Cleveland, sometimes even listing the appropriate Mopar numbers that fit. The Cleveland water pump literally has a specific opening for that copper slug.

Another thing I forgot to mention, but it's in the service manual and everyone ignores it: Use only distilled water in your cooling system. The minerals and chemicals in your tap water do not have the cooling properties of water. Eventually the minerals deposit themselves on the metal, further hampering cooling. It's cheap, it's easy, and it's what Chrysler (and everyone else) used and recommended. Softened water is not distilled water. Much of the mineral content is reduced (not eliminated) but softening does nothing about whatever chemicals your municipality is dumping into the water supply these days: fluoride, DDT, LSD, battery acid... whatever it is that's causing this country to lose its damned mind. 😄

If it doesn't look exactly like this, it's not the right unit:

stat.jpg
 

wedg2go

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Decades ago, a magazine (I wish I could remember which, but I think it was Hot Rod or Car Craft) did extensive testing on radiators and their efficiencies. They used individual temperature probes in each row of various multi-row radiators. Much to their surprise and chagrin--being GM guys--they found that the water in the fourth row was actually being heated by the air that had passed over the first three rows.That radiator was less effective than its three-row equivalent. That's probably why Chrysler never made 4-row radiators.

That being said, those fellas were testing copper/brass radiators, which are far more effective at shedding heat than aluminum units. Aluminum is not better, it's just cheaper and uglier.

Because it was a basement-budget project, I bought a pure-Chinesium 3-row aluminum radiator with a molded top tank for my Valiant off eBay for $138 shipped a couple of years back. I painted it black to avoid the ghastly look of an aluminum unit. Most people don't even notice the radiator, much less the welds holding it together. It blends in like a stocker. The engine is a 10.5:1 W2 340 with a .587"-lift solid roller cam. With a factory 7-blade clutch fan, no shroud, and an NOS factory thermostat, the temp gauge stayed nailed to 180° during a week in the 90s this past summer, including a ton of idling time... in a cramped A-body engine bay with painted TTi step headers.

Make sure you use the right thermostat, meaning NOS Mopar for your application. Yes, it's going to be expensive, but the original design is an integral part of the cooling system's design. They're no longer available new, and nothing like them can be had at a parts store, the dealer, anywhere. It's important enough that Chrysler put this decal on motorhome air cleaners:

View attachment 78972


Notice the wording? "WILL CAUSE ENGINE OVERHEATING" rather than "MAY" or "COULD". If it doesn't look like the one on the decal, and is not made of solid brass with a copper slug, it's not the right thermostat. Mr. Gasket's copy will fail; it's the worst form of Asian trash. There were tons of complaints on the 'net about it awhile back.

OEM are the only ones I've used since the late '80s, and I've never had cooling issues. I daily-drove a '72 Charger with a modified 440 Six Pack for three summers in Atlanta, GA using the original 400's radiator. It never overheated, even on triple-digit days. I did, though, a few times.
That car was flat black with a black interior and no AC... it was like driving Lucifer's oven.

NoCar340 - Many thanks for your explanation regarding the thermostat. As many times I have read about this issue, here and other sites, I never had it pointed out to me as succinct as the photo you posted. I always thought a thermostat was a thermostat...Hmmm?

BTW - I did some research with our local town Chrysler dealership and they in turn told me there were two applicable thermostats left on the shelves, in Chrysler dealerships, across this nation. Now there's one!

Another BTW - I agree about Mr Gasket. Many of the on-line motorhome owners said it worked. Then somewhere around 12,000 miles "Kablooey!!!" Personally, I don't need that! However, I came across Milodon's re-pop and frankly it sounds convincing. Maybe a slight better than Mr Gasket's?...Maybe?
 

volunteer

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Decades ago, a magazine (I wish I could remember which, but I think it was Hot Rod or Car Craft) did extensive testing on radiators and their efficiencies. They used individual temperature probes in each row of various multi-row radiators. Much to their surprise and chagrin--being GM guys--they found that the water in the fourth row was actually being heated by the air that had passed over the first three rows.That radiator was less effective than its three-row equivalent. That's probably why Chrysler never made 4-row radiators.

I've known this and advocated it for decades. Pure logic. As an example, if my 19-inch (OEM 2-row) rad not keeping up, would I choose to have a 3 - row core installed, or upgrade to a 'high-density' 2-row core in its' place, or, better yet, a 'high-density' 2-row 22 inch rad? - which will fit in frame opening. I would have to weigh all the costs and benefits for sure but IF my OEM rad still had 52 year old core in it, even a fresh (stock) 2-row would be an improvement. A 'high-density' version therefore a better choice. Lots of room for a 22-inch unit so could definitely go that route - - if I had a unit in my hands. Most 340's had a 22-incher, unless factory A/C - then a 26-inch. Each added row significantly adds $.
 

i_taz

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As I mentioned above, NOS is your only option these days--eBay, car shows, etc. I started hoarding 'em awhile back so I'd never be without. I've got a pretty good supply on hand, in both 180°/185° and 195° versions. I bought a box of ten 180s for $65 at a show in 2019, so not everyone thinks they're gold-plated. Some eBay vendors certainly do.

The original vendor was Robertshaw, who I believe left the automotive thermostat business sometime in the 1990s. Summit, Jeg's, etc. used to sell them as "Robertshaw high-flow" thermostats, but I haven't seen them listed in those catalogs in a couple of decades. Stewart Water Pumps sells them for Chevrolet applications; for Chryslers they bond a plastic spacer to the Chevy part. It's not the durability that concerns me, it's the smaller aperture. Mr. Gasket makes, or at least used to make, a copy of the Chrysler/Robertshaw that was sourced overseas and should be avoided at all costs.

The exact-same item used in pre-'78 Mopars was original equipment in Ford's 351 Cleveland engines. If you look, you'll find much discussion online about how important that style stat is to properly cooling the temperamental Cleveland, sometimes even listing the appropriate Mopar numbers that fit. The Cleveland water pump literally has a specific opening for that copper slug.

Another thing I forgot to mention, but it's in the service manual and everyone ignores it: Use only distilled water in your cooling system. The minerals and chemicals in your tap water do not have the cooling properties of water. Eventually the minerals deposit themselves on the metal, further hampering cooling. It's cheap, it's easy, and it's what Chrysler (and everyone else) used and recommended. Softened water is not distilled water. Much of the mineral content is reduced (not eliminated) but softening does nothing about whatever chemicals your municipality is dumping into the water supply these days: fluoride, DDT, LSD, battery acid... whatever it is that's causing this country to lose its damned mind. 😄

If it doesn't look exactly like this, it's not the right unit:

View attachment 79003

What about these Mr Gasket's...???

 

oldkimmer

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As I mentioned above, NOS is your only option these days--eBay, car shows, etc. I started hoarding 'em awhile back so I'd never be without. I've got a pretty good supply on hand, in both 180°/185° and 195° versions. I bought a box of ten 180s for $65 at a show in 2019, so not everyone thinks they're gold-plated. Some eBay vendors certainly do.

The original vendor was Robertshaw, who I believe left the automotive thermostat business sometime in the 1990s. Summit, Jeg's, etc. used to sell them as "Robertshaw high-flow" thermostats, but I haven't seen them listed in those catalogs in a couple of decades. Stewart Water Pumps sells them for Chevrolet applications; for Chryslers they bond a plastic spacer to the Chevy part. It's not the durability that concerns me, it's the smaller aperture. Mr. Gasket makes, or at least used to make, a copy of the Chrysler/Robertshaw that was sourced overseas and should be avoided at all costs.

The exact-same item used in pre-'78 Mopars was original equipment in Ford's 351 Cleveland engines. If you look, you'll find much discussion online about how important that style stat is to properly cooling the temperamental Cleveland, sometimes even listing the appropriate Mopar numbers that fit. The Cleveland water pump literally has a specific opening for that copper slug.

Another thing I forgot to mention, but it's in the service manual and everyone ignores it: Use only distilled water in your cooling system. The minerals and chemicals in your tap water do not have the cooling properties of water. Eventually the minerals deposit themselves on the metal, further hampering cooling. It's cheap, it's easy, and it's what Chrysler (and everyone else) used and recommended. Softened water is not distilled water. Much of the mineral content is reduced (not eliminated) but softening does nothing about whatever chemicals your municipality is dumping into the water supply these days: fluoride, DDT, LSD, battery acid... whatever it is that's causing this country to lose its damned mind. 😄

If it doesn't look exactly like this, it's not the right unit:

View attachment 79003
Yes, that’s the baby. Kim
 

NoCar340

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What about these Mr Gasket's...???

Read both of my posts again. Already covered, twice.

Robert shaw are still around also...

Read both of my posts again. Already covered. It bears mentioning that the FlowKooler Chevrolet stat you posted is considerably more expensive than any of my NOS ones were, even with shipping.

I bought a 160 for my boats 340...
Why does your 340 have a '78 or newer 318/360 EGR intake on it? That's all the one you posted will fit, since it's a small-block Chevrolet thermostat. Well, I guess it would also fit a standard Edelbrock Performer like the 2176. Of course, that intake performs worse than the OE EGR unit and is as worthless on a 340 as a screen door is on a submarine.

Maybe you'll eventually figure it out, but by then all the inexpensive NOS ones will be gone. Feel free to learn the hard way. Some have learned, some want to learn, and some want to argue. To each their own.
 
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