I recently installed a new Borgeson power steering box in my 71 challenger. I haven't had a chance to drive much yet since i live in the northeast. I noticed after the install that the car wants to pull to the left pretty hard. I did some research and saw that factory steering boxes have a adjustability in the steering valve to find a neutral spot in the power assist. Does anyone know if the Borgeson box has the same adjustability? My car is in storage so i can't look at it. Trying to get me spring plan together to get it back on the road.
Borgeson Steering box question
- Thread starter GregD
- Start date
pschlosser
Well-Known Member
you bring up a good point. what if... when installing a steering box, the position of the steering system within the box is not at center? we put the pitman arm and the steering input shaft the onto the nearest spline and call it good.
I seem to recall there is a marking on the housing that tells us when the input shaft is aligned to center.
That said, I would not think if the steering box were off-center, it would provide forces bringing it back to some "center" point. I think it's usually the front-end alignment that introduced forces to pull left, right, and even back to center when completing a turn.
I installed a Borgeson steering box on my Challanger and have not experienced any problems with it whatsoever. Everything else in the steering gear and front end is OEM and it drives perfect!
I would suggest having your alignment rechecked and be sure the caster adjustment is correct. That is the most common cause of a vehicle pulling to one side. The number two cause is a bad tire or low tire air pressure which i'm sure you have checked already.
I would suggest having your alignment rechecked and be sure the caster adjustment is correct. That is the most common cause of a vehicle pulling to one side. The number two cause is a bad tire or low tire air pressure which i'm sure you have checked already.
Spyder
Well-Known Member
I've got one in my car and love it, no problems and easy install.
Xcudame
Well-Known Member
Another person here suggesting you get the alignment checked. Search for a small independent shop that does alignments. I've had better luck with them than big chain places.
540HemiCuda
Well-Known Member
Before you make any changes, go to youtube and watch some videos on alignments. By knowing what measurements to make, you may just find that your alignment has changed. You are not necessarily trying to align the car yourself, only using the information to try to identify the issue.
Our Mopars do not use shims to align the front end and very few shops are familiar with them, so finding a shop that can do a good job can be difficult.
When I installed my new Borgeson box, it threw the alignment off.
Our Mopars do not use shims to align the front end and very few shops are familiar with them, so finding a shop that can do a good job can be difficult.
When I installed my new Borgeson box, it threw the alignment off.
heminut
Well-Known Member
The only thing a steering box change would affect is the toe-in and steering wheel straight ahead alignment, it would have no effect on caster or camber.
Got one in my car, but haven't driven it yet. It is nice and compact. I got mine from Bergman with the matching slip joint unit. Went in nice. I have powered up the engine and the system did not pull the steering to one side or the other. Just sat there in the center. But I was also replacing bushings in it as well, so my alignment was off out of the gate and required adjustments to all angles.
540HemiCuda
Well-Known Member
Adjusting toe is part of an alignment. Rather than try for a 'close' measurement with a tape measure, I went with the 'to the degree' that a formal alignment gives. And confirms (or adjusts) the camber and castor as well. Seemed prudent.
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heminut
Well-Known Member
Okay, but your post would lead people who aren't that knowledgeable about front ends to believe that a steering box change would throw the whole alignment out of whack. I just wanted to clarify that it doesn't. Also, if the centerlink is at in the same plane it was with the original gearbox it won't effect the toe-in either.
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Xcudame
Well-Known Member
I don't know, I can get damn close on toe-in (or out) with just a tape measure and a piece of straight steel bar. Worked great for years on our Challenger Street Stock race car. On a street car with tread, don't even need the steel bar.
Challenger RTA
Well-Known Member
In theory. If it was aliened with new or very good parts.When replacing all the parts or just one that wears, steering box, idler arm,ball joints,tire rod ends do one at a time and but back on the same thread. It would be back in alignment. I have done that and never had a problem. I have also done the caster and camber, But that can be a a problem. It's usually a ball joint I replace when it feels out of aliment. I have done that. Can not count how many times. The problem is every one takes everything apart and it's all out wack! And yes. I do both sides if it one doesn't fix it.
540HemiCuda
Well-Known Member
Any time someone who is not familiar and comfortable with front ends changes most anything in the front end (no matter who does it), I suggest the alignment be checked. At the very least, it is cheaper than a new pair of front tires should something be off and not addressed besides the possible safety factor.
If someone isn't that knowledgeable about front ends, how would they know whether the alignment was still good or not other than if the car pulled one side or the other or the tires stated to wear wrong? And if a person wasn't that knowledgeable about front ends, they would seem likely to seek professional help as to whether the toe was still good or not. And since toe is part of an alignment, I suggested an alignment to be sure. I feel that was a prudent suggestion since setting toe is part of an alignment. It would be the same set-up and costs whether the camber and caster were also checked/adjusted or not. It is all part and parcel. At least for those that aren't that knowledgeable about front ends.
My suggestion may well have been an oversimplification, but was done in an attempt to not overly complicate the issue for those that are not knowledgeable, nor want to be knowledgeable about front ends. And there are plenty of those guys out there. Just like carburetors, some guys are comfortable jumping in and doing it all themselves while others simply want it to work without any intimate knowledge. In the end, I just tried to offer a couple of suggestions for both camps based on my own personal experiences.
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heminut
Well-Known Member
Aaaand, once again you have to comeback and justify all that you posted!
BTW, I did front end work for a living for several years.
So things we don't know - the OPs mechanical ability, who did the Borgeson box install, the capability of the person doing the box install, the possibility of other component damage created during disassembly, possibility of damaged created by the install, possibility of incorrect reassembly after install, alignment work done after the install. Any of these items could contribute to a pull.
What we know for sure - the Borgeson box does not have an on-center adjustment like the stock Mopar box, some people are capable of doing their own alignments, some people are uncomfortable doing alignments, some people are unaware of all the relationships of alignment angles.
The OP asked if he could do an on-center adjustment like the stock box. The answer is no. The OP is trying to develop a plan of attack to address this. I think most of us would agree a thorough inspection is needed to see if any damaged parts are in place. After that, a verification of alignment angles would be next. Whether these steps are done by the OP or a shop is TBD. A link to the Borgeson site was provided that has some troubleshooting tips could also be utilized if the steps above don't provide a solution.
What we know for sure - the Borgeson box does not have an on-center adjustment like the stock Mopar box, some people are capable of doing their own alignments, some people are uncomfortable doing alignments, some people are unaware of all the relationships of alignment angles.
The OP asked if he could do an on-center adjustment like the stock box. The answer is no. The OP is trying to develop a plan of attack to address this. I think most of us would agree a thorough inspection is needed to see if any damaged parts are in place. After that, a verification of alignment angles would be next. Whether these steps are done by the OP or a shop is TBD. A link to the Borgeson site was provided that has some troubleshooting tips could also be utilized if the steps above don't provide a solution.
540HemiCuda
Well-Known Member
Aaaand, once again you have to comeback and justify all that you posted!
BTW, I did front end work for a living for several years.
This back and forth is good. It lets everyone see which responses are worthy of note. And which ones aren't.
And thank you for your resume to (try to) justify all that you have posted.
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