Ebody Ashtray Insert Installation

[Bob Hunsel]

I recently purchased an Ashtray Insert from Tony's Parts for my 1970 'Cuda. While restoring the ashtray door cover portion of the assembly I have been trying to figure out how I might install the two bottom rivets (1/8 hollow wall rivets, see pic) necessary to mount the insert to the door cover (see pic). Due to the upward angle of the insert it is impossible to get a rivet setting tool squarely in line with the rivets that would allow a uniform peening over of the rivets when struck with al hammer. The best I have come up with is to shorten the rivet setting tool to about 1 inch, that would allow for squarely placing the head of the setting tool on the rivet and using a "C clamp", I might be able to crush the rivet uniformly. Has anyone else installed this insert and if so what type of tool did you use to install the rivets

 

[tonysrt]

I just looked at mine and the head of the rivet is at the back of the tray and it is pretty flat in that area. Looks like if you had about 2 1/2" X 1/4" plate to lay in the back area and with a punch flatten rivets from ash tray side. Another way get Stainless flat head screws and nuts and screw it together. Probably 4/40 or 6/32 screw would do the job.

 

[fasjac]

I may be looking at it wrong but it looks like mine was accessed from the back.
Are you trying to go in from tray side or front?

 

[moparlee]

My suggestion is to just call up Tony and ask him

 

[fasjac]

 

[Hemi392]

aircraft rivet squeezer using brake pad rivet sets. if you need a pic let me know. I've used this method on mustangs and camero

 

[Bob Hunsel]

My suggestion is to just call up Tony and ask him

I have...he said use a brake flaring tool; which would not work at all.

 

[Bob Hunsel]

aircraft rivet squeezer using brake pad rivet sets. if you need a pic let me know. I've used this method on mustangs and camero

Looks good, of course I don't have an "aircraft rivet squeezer". Can they be readily purchased.

Someone else from another site suggested a Hanson Rivet & Supply rivet tool (HS-22E) with a total cost of about $200.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/dlattach/;topic=656.0;attach=5172;image

 

[Hemi392]

yes, just go to EBay and put in aircraft rivet squeezer. a TATCO or ATS one works fine. you can get them for under $200. get one with long enough reach. they have different yoaks that change out so if you can't find one that has the reach then get the best value and search for yoaks. a flange/bulkhead one should work. if you still can't find what you need go to US Tools, Avery, or ATS (Aircraft Tool Supply) and just get the yoak you need. Also Avery or ATS has the cupped brake rivet sets, you want the .187 shanks. hope this helps

 

[Bob Hunsel]

yes, just go to EBay and put in aircraft rivet squeezer. a TATCO or ATS one works fine. you can get them for under $200. get one with long enough reach. they have different yoaks that change out so if you can't find one that has the reach then get the best value and search for yoaks. a flange/bulkhead one should work. if you still can't find what you need go to US Tools, Avery, or ATS (Aircraft Tool Supply) and just get the yoak you need. Also Avery or ATS has the cupped brake rivet sets, you want the .187 shanks. hope this helps

Found it...thanks

 

[Bob Hunsel]

Looks good, of course I don't have an "aircraft rivet squeezer". Can they be readily purchased.

Someone else from another site suggested a Hanson Rivet & Supply rivet tool (HS-22E) with a total cost of about $200.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/dlattach/;topic=656.0;attach=5172;image

Yes I saw that. Looks like that will do the trick if I can decide exactly which length dies I need for the "roll" and the "head".

 

[moparleo]

If you join that site, Cuda Cody who is the site owner might do the job for you. Some members have contacted him about sending their ashtrays to him and have him install them. The tool shown belongs to him. He said there is also a slightly lesser expensive model available.
E-Bodies

 

[tonysrt]

Tony might be right about the flaring tool working. I tried a 4" clamp and it looks possible to use that to geter done. Unfortunately I can't find my flaring tool right now. I can't see spending $200 for a tool you may use only once. This is what makes this hobby challenging, trying to figure out how to get a job done without buying a new tool for it. It's so rewarding when you figure out another way to accomplish the job. And as I said before I have that tool I just can't find it right now.

 

[Bob Hunsel]

Tony might be right about the flaring tool working. I tried a 4" clamp and it looks possible to use that to geter done. Unfortunately I can't find my flaring tool right now. I can't see spending $200 for a tool you may use only once. This is what makes this hobby challenging, trying to figure out how to get a job done without buying a new tool for it. It's so rewarding when you figure out another way to accomplish the job. And as I said before I have that tool I just can't find it right now.

Let me know what you find. I just can't see how a flaring tool is going to properly "roll" the rivet down to secure the insert to where it look like a factory installed part. My AAR is OE restored and having it look exactly as it looked at the time of production is a priority with me. My thought is if I purchase the tool, use it to secure my ash tray insert and resell it, that will accomplish what I need. I know there are many others out there with the same problem. If it costs me $25 or $40 as a sales discount to sell it and do the job correctly, it is worth to me.

 

[tonysrt]

The Flaring tool has one end flared, so that would open the end of the rivet in a flare pattern securing it to the door of the ashtray.

 

[Bob Hunsel]

Cuda Cody on another site was a big help. Thanks @Hemi392 for the link. For those of you who may be interested, here is my installation.

I did not want to compromise on the quality of the installation of my ashtray insert (OE), I “bit the bullet” and purchased the Hanson HS-42E rivet squeezing tool ($145.00) directly from Hanson (pic below). This tool has a 4” reach and a 2 inch gap. Along with the rivet squeezer you will need to purchase a “head” and “tubular roll” squeezing die. The items I purchased were #CA2004-9, 3/8” head die and #CA2005-13, 7/8” “roll” die ($16.00 ea). The tool is of very high quality and works perfectly for achieving an OE look on the ashtray insert installation. A note here on use of the tool, the “ram” on the tool is adjustable so that you can customize it for the rivet and die you are using. There were no operating instructions provided with my tool. It took a little thinking and studying the tool until I realized, twisting the “ram” counter-clockwise lengthened the ram and clock-wise shortened it. With these dies to have the proper squeeze”, you will have to have the ram extend ¾” (with the handle fully down). Because of the 2” heat shield on top of the ashtray, you will not be able to insert the tool into the ashtray insert with both dies installed on the tool. It takes a little “jiggling” around but the process I used was to not install the 7/8” die until I inserted the front part of the tool in the ashtray and moved the back part of the tool into position (head of rivet). Then I reached into the ashtray and inserted the 7/8” “roll die” into the front of the tool, then extended the “ram” to just make contact with the rivet head to hold it in place, made sure my “roll die” was seated in the rivet and squeezed. The results were exactly what I was looking for.


I am finished with the tool and plan to eventually sell it and the dies at a little discount on ebay to others wanting it for the same purpose. I figure the discount then will be the ultimate cost of getting the insert installed correctly. Then whoever buys the tool can use it and pass it on at a slight discount to someone else and on it goes…

 

[rbbruno3]

Nicely done

 

[slantfish]

or recover some of that investment by offering an install service. I'd pay $30-40 to have someone install it right and not bother buying the tools for a one off

 

[Bob Hunsel]

or recover some of that investment by offering an install service. I'd pay $30-40 to have someone install it right and not bother buying the tools for a one off

@slantfish, I've thought about that, helping others out and recovering some investment at the same time, but I just wouldn't want the liability of possibly messing up someone's insert or something else unfortunate happening. There just isn't enough "up side" to taking that chance.

 

[fasjac]

Very nice job on the ashtray! Factory look all the way. Here’s the shot of the rivet job. Just couldn’t get the tool and already had a couple trays here.

Again, great job!