Handling question

[Ralph]

Yes, the tubular upper control arms are made by firm feel. They are on the west coast.

firmfeel.com

 

[plymouth67]

Yes, the tubular upper control arms are made by firm feel. They are on the west coast.

firmfeel.com

I didn't realize they made the control arms, i knew they had other things. How much positive caster were you able to get with these?

 

[Ralph]

I think they told me to set it at 4 degrees

 

[plymouth67]

I think they told me to set it at 4 degrees

I keep hearing 3 to 4 degrees is ideal, I just wanted to make sure you were able to get that with these.

 

[Ralph]

you should call dick at firm feel and speak to him

 

[autoxcuda]

https://www.mopar-forum.eu/download/file.php?id=6221

Control Arm Stiffening plates

Firmfeel Mopar Suspension and Steering

With my car I did the low buck “pump it down” mod. This was very worthwhile and I like it a lot. Mopars of that era have too much power steering assist, in my opinion.

The lower control arms are very strong, up and down, but can twist a little under hard conditions. LCA stiffening plates are a cheap upgrade.

Also, I would recommend a torsion bar upgrade. New, heavier bars will probably be the most noticeable improvement. (Factory bars had a flexible coating on them. New bars probably don’t, but you can spray them with flexible undercoating).

Originally these cars had bias ply tires,which were not great for cornering, but performance radials will expose any deficiencies in your suspension.

If you find you need adjustable upper control arms, I would recommend you bite the bullet and upgrade all your suspension bushings while you have it apart. I like polyurethane because they last much longer than rubber, but others prefer rubber, so you need to read up on it to make an informed decision.

Stiffening plates will not change the OP situation whatsoever.

LCA do not twist much. There a possibly of flex around the sway bar tab when running larger 1 1/4” front sway bar that puts 3x the force on that area.

Tightening up an old LCA at the rear is the biggest takeaway if that is an issue with your LCA. That’s when the two halves of the LCA separate some around the torsion bar hex adjuster.

 

[autoxcuda]

Ride height is so critical on these cars.
Unless it’s perfect, there will be an uneven toe change.

Not terribly bad.

Mitch Lelito has all stock components; per SCCA E-street prepared rules.

His car is slammed low. He is nationally competitive. Picture below

Ehrenburg documented this in an article in Mopar Action.

 

[Mopar Mitch]

Autoxcuda -- T/Anks for posting the picture... actually, that is from the recent Holley/MOPARTY at Bowling Green KY weekend of September 17-20, 2020... that was my first time out for an event after rebuilding most of the car over the past 5-years... the new engine ran great! But, 8-year old 340 TW tires (BFG Comp-2 255-50-16s, although just mounted to my 16x10 race rims, after removing the 20-year old Hoosier A6 275-45-16s that were waisted), didn't help in competitive AX times... absolutely have to have 200 TW tires to be competitive in "street tire" classes. So, ... next year I'll be back with with new rims... probably 18x10" or 11" wide, and at least 275-35-18 tires... maybe 315-30-18 F/R. My car was featured as one of the best Challengers/Cudas at the event... I had a real BLAST at this event... a must go-to event for those that can make it in the future (every 3rd weekend of September for the next 5-years as was mentioned by the Moparty staff). Unfortunately, I had a suspension breakage during the drag racing on Friday evening (leaf-spring front hanger broke)... didn't realize it until first autocross run Saturday morning... put it up on the trailer and went home early... all fixed now!

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

So my car has 17 x 8 wheels on the front, all front suspension is new, freshly aligned but still not happy with they way it drives. I'm wondering what you guys who have bigger wheels on your cars have done to make them drive better. My suspension is stock stuff and I dont really have the money to drop on Alterkation stuff or anything like that but, if there are some control arms or things I could change to make it better I could do that. Thanks in advance...

What is your specific complaint about how it drives?

When properly equipped these cars can feel tight, on center and easy to control on the road. Sounds like something is wrong.

Aftermarket suspension is not the answer.

What size tires front and rear?

What are the alignment specs?

Other components installed?

 

[BergmanAutoCraft]

I took to a local alignment shop and the guy wanted to say its because of the size of the tires and he didnt think there was much they could do to make it any better. I dont ever remember my 70 driving like this, but it had 15" wheels on it. Just hoping to make it better on uneven roads. Decent roads it's just fine, goes straight, uneven roads it's like a dog sniffing around looking for place to poop...lol

What kind of tires do you have?

For the track I used BFG Rival S which were great on the track, but offered poor tracking on the street.

In my case, I went back to Michelins, Pilot Sport AS-3+. This was intentional, as the cold weather performance is good too. Cold weather, meaning, when its dry and salt free, if I want to take a drive when its 30F outside, I don't have to worry.

 

[timdp]

There are suggested alignment stats for radial tire that are quite different from the stock specs. Don't have he info to hand, but its out there.

 

[GMachineDartgt]

Oops...here it is

View attachment 65015

Set the toe and let it go.

 

[plymouth67]

What is your specific complaint about how it drives?

When properly equipped these cars can feel tight, on center and easy to control on the road. Sounds like something is wrong.

Aftermarket suspension is not the answer.

What size tires front and rear?

What are the alignment specs?

Other components installed?

I posted a copy of the alignment specs in an earlier post I hope you can see them. My wheel and tire combo are as follows

Rears are 18 x 9.5 with +6mm offset with 285-40-18 Nitto NT555 Tires.

Fronts are 17 x 8 with a 0mm offset and 245- 45-17 Nitto NT555 tires also.

The suspension is all new and all stock. It does have a Borgenson steering box and Hemi torsion bars but other than that all factory upper and lower control arms and such. My complaint is on uneven surfaces it hunts for a lane really bad. We live in a rural area where grain trucks travel the roads and actually basically rut the pavement from thier wieght. On smooth roads its just fine.

 

[timdp]

Check this out: Mopar wheel alignment settings

 

[timdp]

Autoxcuda -- T/Anks for posting the picture... actually, that is from the recent Holley/MOPARTY at Bowling Green KY weekend of September 17-20, 2020... that was my first time out for an event after rebuilding most of the car over the past 5-years... the new engine ran great! But, 8-year old 340 TW tires (BFG Comp-2 255-50-16s, although just mounted to my 16x10 race rims, after removing the 20-year old Hoosier A6 275-45-16s that were waisted), didn't help in competitive AX times... absolutely have to have 200 TW tires to be competitive in "street tire" classes. So, ... next year I'll be back with with new rims... probably 18x10" or 11" wide, and at least 275-35-18 tires... maybe 315-30-18 F/R. My car was featured as one of the best Challengers/Cudas at the event... I had a real BLAST at this event... a must go-to event for those that can make it in the future (every 3rd weekend of September for the next 5-years as was mentioned by the Moparty staff). Unfortunately, I had a suspension breakage during the drag racing on Friday evening (leaf-spring front hanger broke)... didn't realize it until first autocross run Saturday morning... put it up on the trailer and went home early... all fixed now!

Love the stance Mitch! Looks a little familiar. Rear is a bit high in this pic because I was setting it up to carry a roof rack.

 

[Pro451Bee]

I tried these NITTO tires on my car last year and immediately removed them due to the tramline issue these tires have. Felt like flat tires on all but the the most perfect roads. Steering wheel feed back was a horrible.

 

[plymouth67]

I tried these NITTO tires on my car last year and immediately removed them due to the tramline issue these tires have. Felt like flat tires on all but the the most perfect roads. Steering wheel feed back was a horrible.

View attachment 78522

What did you put on it after and, did it help?

 

[Pro451Bee]

I put Federal 555 on there , much cheaper too , and Wala pinky finger steering at 90 again . I have a new set of NITTOs ill sell you.

 

[plymouth67]

I put Federal 555 on there , much cheaper too , and Wala pinky finger steering at 90 again . I have a new set of NITTOs ill sell you.

I'm sure you do...lol
Mine is great on good roads but, I live in Illinois so good roads are few and far between..

 

[Mopar Mitch]

ALL of our Mopars suffer from poor factory alignment design... best immediate remedy is aftermarket UCAs (~1-2 negative camber, 4-5-6 positive caster, 1/16 or zero toe), stiffer TBs (at least 1.1 or higher... you will NOT regret it... and don't be afraid of larger TBs... I run the largest at 1.24), larger F/R sway bars, tighter steering box (FF stage 3, or SteerNGear stage 3)... and better shocks. Rear suspension also needs stiffening. Also, subframe connectors will help round out the package. Then... get a better driver's seat, smaller steering wheel.

For wheels/rims, the shorter sidewalls will give a harsher ride, so, take that into consideration... learn to adjust air pressures for comfort.. within reasonable safety.