Let's talk about 340 heads.

[Ohiowoodchuck]

I was wondering what kind of hp gains a person could pick up by bolting on a set of w2 heads vs a set of let's say j heads. Would you see any gain or would a cam change be in order to get maximum hp out of the setup. Would a person normally go with a higher lift cam if they did the swap. I'm just trying to see if anyone has a apples to apples comparison or if it's even possible I figure, based on my reading and from my experience pulling cummins powered diesel trucks that a higher compression piston would be in order

 

[gzig5]

An out of the box W2 head will outflow a J-head approximately 260 cfm to 200. You should see more power in the engine changing only the heads. A bigger cam and higher compression will only take better advantage of the flow and turn better numbers than if you stayed with the J heads. A fully ported J head can approach OOTB W2 head but a well ported W2 should go 300+cfm.

Horsepower gains are tough to predict, but you will gain power. I will say that just bolting on a set of W2 heads with no other changes is a waste of effort consdering the cost of the heads and rockers. You need a cam to take full advantage of the heads. You'd be better off bolting on a set of Eddy, ProMaxx, or TF 190 heads if you're not going the full monty and the TF may be overkill.

 

[Rob C]

Agreed. Gains would be minimal. Do keep in mind that the W2 is MoPars first small block race head that entered NASCAR & drag racing. There also know to not flow the listed 260 cfm at .600.

If your going to build a hot street car, these are a good route. There draw back is there weight. Slightly more expensive rocker gear.

If you find a porter that knows there way around that head, 320+ cfm is possible without getting completely stupid on the port. (AKA, a pro stock effort.)
You will need a dedicated W-2 intake manifold. That’s the other drawback as well but! These can be found relatively cheap on eBay used. Unless it is a M1 tunnel ram.

Spelling edit...

 

[Ohiowoodchuck]

Do you still feel the gains would be minimal if the same amount of work was done to x or j head as it was the w2's and the only thing that was changed was the heads and of course the w2's need there own intake. I haven't researched cam specs for 340's yet but I know when I was pulling trucks as the head work and technology caught up to the sport we was able to increase the lift on our camshafts and increase the ramp angle but also decrease the duration the valves were open. I'm thinking this will not be the case with a naturally aspirated engine. I know it's not a good comparison since we was filling the cylinders with a large turbocharger. I'm curious about my build I'm going to start and you see some horror stories about guys buying used cylinder heads and they send them out for work and there cracked. I'm wanting to do it right the first time.

 

[Rob C]

The gains in flow are not concrete. (Therefore the hp & tq gains will vary) They will vary by shop, machinist, actual work done & flow bench results. To test before and after results add money to the final bill most are disinterested in. My guy (New York) charges an hours rate plus $20. I don’t know what your states rates would be. Or your machinists charge per hour.

Your asking about equal work done to both heads (what ever that work maybe.) and the victor of power between them with no information behind the question. The Equation you bask also has a factor of cost. Should this also be considered? And at what level of work? Are both hurt starting as a bear castings? Is the used “J” had a good casting that does not need any work?
(That would be a miracle!)

Your question is more than just general, it’s super gentle. There are way too many factors involved that you probably do not realize your simple question. It is a good question, but there’s just too much to consider to give a straightforward accurate answer.
Let’s start from scratch and a different angle. This may be the best approach.

The known. So far, you have a 340 & you want to upgrade the engines power.

Is this a competition engine? With certain rules to adhere to?
Or is this a street car?
Is the engine stock and if not, what modifications are done to it?
What is your goal?

 

[Ohiowoodchuck]

Street car, engine is stock. I bought out a surplus of 340 stuff off a guy. I got one complete engine in the deal. I'm redoing a 74 cuda to put it in. I believe it has a different cam along with a edelbrock intake which I have stock ones. My goal is one hell of a motor. I'm just torn between high compression engine and ordering race gas by the drum or a 10.5 to 1 engine on 93. Everybody will try to talk me out of the high compression engine I know. It's not like I'm going to drive it on a 400 mile one way road trip though.

 

[Rob C]

Your not very clear. “One hell of a street motor” is just as vague as your questions I hate to say.

Also saying I have an Edelbrock intake is super vague. They make a lot of them and the old ones still float around. I just sold a Edelbrock “Tunnel Ram” with a yy1 top a few weeks back. (For example)

I won’t talk you out of a high compression race gas drinking machine. I’ll just tell you it would be fucking stupid to do so and end the convo by saying “Have fun with that ****.”
By the way, depending on the cam choose , 10.5-1 can be to much for 93 octane. FWIW, I’m running a 11-1 ratio in my 360 now. It is really all about balance and the combination that consists of it. The Hot Rod Engine Masters wining small block MoPar ran a ratio of 11.66-1. (Again, IIRC.)

A great example of why is the last (IIRC) engine masters competition where a a 376 cubic inch small block MoPar made over 700hp on pump gas with what I would still call a small-ish & streetable hot rod cam.

Let’s take this a step further and answer me these questions to help me zero in on what your looking for.

Automatic or manual trans?
If an automatic trans, would changing out the converter for a higher stall be OK?
What size rear end and what gears are in it?
Is it sure grip equipped?
Tire size?
Is gas mileage a concern?
Are you wanting to keep it looking stock under the hood?
Headers or exhaust manifolds?

 

[DrEamer]

Your not very clear. “One hell of a street motor” is just as vague as your questions I hate to say.

Also saying I have an Edelbrock intake is super vague. They make a lot of them and the old ones still float around. I just sold a Edelbrock “Tunnel Ram” with a yy1 top a few weeks back. (For example)

I won’t talk you out of a high compression race gas drinking machine. I’ll just tell you it would be fucking stupid to do so and end the convo by saying “Have fun with that ****.”
By the way, depending on the cam choose , 10.5-1 can be to much for 93 octane. FWIW, I’m running a 11-1 ratio in my 360 now. It is really all about balance and the combination that consists of it. The Hot Rod Engine Masters wining small block MoPar ran a ratio of 11.66-1. (Again, IIRC.)

A great example of why is the last (IIRC) engine masters competition where a a 376 cubic inch small block MoPar made over 700hp on pump gas with what I would still call a small-ish & streetable hot rod cam.

Let’s take this a step further and answer me these questions to help me zero in on what your looking for.

Automatic or manual trans?
If an automatic trans, would changing out the converter for a higher stall be OK?
What size rear end and what gears are in it?
Is it sure grip equipped?
Tire size?
Is gas mileage a concern?
Are you wanting to keep it looking stock under the hood?
Headers or exhaust manifolds?

Come on rumblefish, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!!!

Anyway, rumblefish360 is right, a lot of variables to consider. Also, what sort of power band do you want, do you want a high RPM engine, or one with some low end grunt. Is a stroker a possibility, and what sort of budget are you on. The one thing you should consider when building an engine is the E bodies are not light cars. Since it sounds like you are not going to drive long distances, a stock stroke, with a good heads, cam, intake, with deeper gears would be a lot of fun. My current plan involves building my car for longer trips, so a stroker hooked up to my overdrive transmission and not turn a lot of RPM's on the freeway, but still enjoy deep gears around town. One other note, is you may want to consider a set of Engine Quest heads. They make set for LA engines, and several places do some bowl work, that really makes them another option to think about.

 

[Rob C]

Well, since you asked;
(Warning, jokes ahead....)

I feel like I’m talking to a Dissolution no nothing kid.

And that’s OK.
But I’m not here to teach even though Mommy, Daddy, your siblings and school teacher told you the internet is to learn from.

Ya wanna learn from me personally? No problem. I teach a short course on how to rebuild your small block MoPar @ 6K. I supply nothing but talk and a pointing finger and advice. Then you can install your engine and drive it home.

Or an adult that’s twice as disillusioned as a kid could ever be.

Which can be worse than ...
Enter crazy scenario above.....
You pay double.

But that is OK

Seriously folks, no no, really, let’s be serious here for a minute...

What we have here above is a serious lack of info but just a poster restating his wants and wishes with no actual facts or general direction of much of anything.

I’m willing to go through the hoops a bit to help out. But we gotta talk here.

One of the BIGGEST mistakes I see all to often is what the poster writes, “I want a hell of an engine” which gets all sorts of replies. Some of the funniest are from burnt out posters that write in jokes that say, “.750 solid roller!” For a cam choice.

And then the OP gets it and says, “What next?”

Or they ask for a build Recipe for 450 horse power. They get the recipe they like, the building engine, they come back, “Why does my car perform like ****?” Because it’s couple to a stock in Converter with 2.76 gears with the 275 x 60 x 15 Tire. Now you have a dog twice as slow as when you first started out.

But you have one hell of an engine though!!!!!!

Let’s have some questions asked and get some answers so we know where to go next.

I love the enthusiasm of the original posters question and what he wants to do. I think it’s great! No doubt and without a doubt this could turn into an excellent, great and fun project with awesome results. But I have to know the heading to guide the ship. This way we can hook the right fish.
(Some pun intended...)

 

[Ohiowoodchuck]

You should get to know me before you stereotype me as some adult liberal who still lives with there mom and dad. just saying. I want about 600-700 hp out of a 340. I got a steel stock crank that should balance out. I'm planning on arp main bolts and studs for the main caps. I figured on billet rods from crower if need I haven't researched or talked to a mopar man to see the limits of a stock 340 rod. I want to stay around a stock bore or .030 clean up is fine. I can live with either arias or keith black Pistons as long as there made in American. I wasn't sure on the camshaft because I haven't researched specs to see what will work good with w2 heads and intake. I was planning on having either lsm or bullet cams cut me a billet. I figure roller rockers will be a necessity as this point. I'll have to see what Harland sharp has to offer or maybe there is other manufactures out there who make a great product. I used some of his on my cummins pulling engine. Then I'll probably go with arp head studs and then maybe somewhere around a 950 cfm carb. Might need to go up or down a 100cfm not sure on that one. I'll definitely want headers I want to build the car around the motor. So first I would like to build the engine and then put the rest of the pieces together. The car is a auto and I don't have a problem adding a certain stall convertor but I don't want to be limited on say you can only run a cam this big because of the convertor you have. Same with the gear ratio. I learned that a long time ago building pulling trucks put a lot of money in the engine half that in driveline and whatever you got left on making it look good. I hope this clarifies some of my goals and maybe I'm overkill on some of it but I thought it would be a good base to start with and could add more to later if needed. I've been busy at work and things happening in life so I couldn't jump right back on to type this out last night.

 

[Rob C]

You should get to know me before you stereotype me as some adult liberal who still lives with there mom and dad. just saying

STOP!

As I stated, “Warning, jokes coming!”

If your this easily offended. I’m sorry to hear this, have a good day. You seem to know what you want. Enjoy your build. Have fun with that ****.

Goodbye

 

[Ohiowoodchuck]

Oh I see, you can joke but I can't, warning jokes coming, stick it up your arrogant ass. This is America and I can build "that ****" if I want, jealous prick.

 

[Rob C]

OHHHHH LOOK AT THE LITTE 38 yo BOY FREAK OUT!!!


Ha ha ha ha ha

Come on man, get real. Your freaking out over nothing but a misread post whgere I was joking around and your now acting like a ***** who is but hurt.
Then you call me... HA ha ha ha... Arrogant? LMAO And a jealous prink on top of it!
Woooooo Hooooooo!!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha


Hummm, now did I miss read your post or did I get it right? Or am I just fucking around?


Text is so hard to decipher.

I started the thread wondering if you knew anything. Perhaps you kjnow much about engine building but on the net,

 

[Ohiowoodchuck]

I got your boy. Is it just me or does everyone from New York have a big ego and a small dick. Oh well stay out of my thread I dont need your old ass opinion.

 

[Rob C]

LMAO, amazing how the BOY resorts to petty sexual jokes and name calling at a children’s depth, toilet humor. Yep, no the E body snob popping up for a breath of fresh air from his Ma’ma’s Pusey.

I like that you said “I have your big boy right here.”
That just let me know I can not help you at all with your perverted **** sexuality. Sorry, try your sister for satisfaction. She should be in the pasture grazing.

Stay outta your thread you say? Are you for real?

I’m having so much fun with you trading ridiculous barbs! I thought this was a great start. But being your a **** and all, we will just get back to your problem at hand.
(Not your jerk off hand!)

Oh! No ego here. You assume to much as most know nothings do. I know where I stand. I can’t be taken down.

 

[Rob C]

Being your goal is 600 or 700 hp, a stock rod isn’t a good choice. I wouldn’t bother with billet ether. Heck, Scat has those forged rods that will perform well with rates at a thousand HP for reasonable monies.

Rather than state the over bore, let the sonic check do it’s thing and it will point the way. I had a 340 block @ .030 show a cylinder at .024 thick.
Ugh! Scary huh?

Skip the Harland Sharp rockers. Go directly to TD.
The W2 goes a touch over 300cfm. IMO, reaching for 700 hp with a limited flowing head like that is, well, hard? LOL!

Unless you know someone that has done ol’ tyme Pro Stock head work on a W2, (oval into rectangle ports of ridiculous proportions) some of the best work I have seen is in the 320-330 cfm area which I take with grain of salt.

Here is a tip you may not be aware of. The W2 comes only as a closed chambered head. They can be carved and opened up to the older style. The metal is there to be removed. This would be of benefit with a positive domed slug to create a large, high quenched area set up in addition to the better flowing fuel spreading redesign of the open chamber for the W2.

Look everywhere for the largest valve you can stick in it with a longer stem than normally seen with this head.

If the W2 sounds like it may be a bit much, and I wouldn’t argue that! Look into the Edelbrock Victor instead. Unless you want it to be a all MoPar only parts use engine. Then the W-7-8-9 is what you want. Also, FWIW, the W5 is a rectangle port W2 that can port out better than the W2. But it is a crap shoot because of bad casting with crap aluminum that doesn’t take to welding.

The only 4bbl. Intake worth looking at is the Indy.
As far as dual quad tunnel rams go, the W2 Holley Pro Dominator & the MP Tunnel rams are out there. Hard to find and early impossible for the Holley.

Just make sure you have monies ready to point and Click the “Buy Now” button.

 

[Ohiowoodchuck]

I'm not going to get on here and try to boost my ego and give you a long list of accomplishments cause I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else for that matter. I've always let my actions speak. I came on here to learn about a set of w2 heads and the hp they can support. You go off on the deep end and make jokes about basement **** and calling me some little boy, because I said i wanted a bad ass street engine. Then treating me like a dumbass because I said I had a edelbrock intake for a 340. I bought two pickup loads of 340 **** off a guy. I havent had time to go write individual part numbers down. Didnt know that would put me into a class of dumbasses. That's ok I'm not some little cry baby liberal give me a "ribbon" boy as you would call me. Good luck man.

 

[Ohiowoodchuck]

Thanks for that last bit of information. Would you want to say what camshaft manufacture you would use. I listed lsm and bullet because I have used them in the past for cummins camshafts and had great luck with both companies. Would you want to push the envelope so to speak and run the motor up into the higher rpm range if needed. Let's say the 6500-7000 range. Provided that the crank and rods are properly balance . I guess what I'm trying to say is at what point in the rpm range would the w2 drop off and the other cylinder heads you mentioned really outshine the performance of them.

Being your goal is 600 or 700 hp, a stock rod isn’t a good choice. I wouldn’t bother with billet ether. Heck, Scat has those forged rods that will perform well with rates at a thousand HP for reasonable monies.

Rather than state the over bore, let the sonic check do it’s thing and it will point the way. I had a 340 block @ .030 show a cylinder at .024 thick.
Ugh! Scary huh?

Skip the Harland Sharp rockers. Go directly to TD.
The W2 goes a touch over 300cfm. IMO, reaching for 700 hp with a limited flowing head like that is, well, hard? LOL!

Unless you know someone that has done ol’ tyme Pro Stock head work on a W2, (oval into rectangle ports of ridiculous proportions) some of the best work I have seen is in the 320-330 cfm area which I take with grain of salt.

Here is a tip you may not be aware of. The W2 comes only as a closed chambered head. They can be carved and opened up to the older style. The metal is there to be removed. This would be of benefit with a positive domed slug to create a large, high quenched area set up in addition to the better flowing fuel spreading redesign of the open chamber for the W2.

Look everywhere for the largest valve you can stick in it with a longer stem than normally seen with this head.

If the W2 sounds like it may be a bit much, and I wouldn’t argue that! Look into the Edelbrock Victor instead. Unless you want it to be a all MoPar only parts use engine. Then the W-7-8-9 is what you want. Also, FWIW, the W5 is a rectangle port W2 that can port out better than the W2. But it is a crap shoot because of bad casting with crap aluminum that doesn’t take to welding.

The only 4bbl. Intake worth looking at is the Indy.
As far as dual quad tunnel rams go, the W2 Holley Pro Dominator & the MP Tunnel rams are out there. Hard to find and early impossible for the Holley.

Just make sure you have monies ready to point and Click the “Buy Now” button.

 

[Rob C]

Yea I’d take a W2 to 7K+ but what is really important is the cross section size of the port.

It is a mathematical equation. I don’t keep that in my head, BUT! I do know a place that can help with your goals a good bit more and more precisely.

Go to speedtalk.com and there you can learn a lot about cylinder heads and camshafts and there working relationship between then as well as those two together on a give displacement.

There, you will find some of the country’s leading head porters and a few engine builders worth there weight in gold.

I would also consider a increase in displacement.
Here is why; https://www.hotrod.com/articles/la-...b_social_HRN_190110_sf205766770&sf205766770=1

 

[Rob C]

Ugh! If it wasn’t in the middle of the night I’d have fun Replying something... irritating? but I’ll just sign off. LMAO
GREAT Jousting with you.

Sleep well buddy! Looking forward to your build. Perhaps I’ll see it in a mag one day and I can say “Hey! I know this sick fucker!”

As usual, just kidding. But not about the magazine spread.

I'm not going to get on here and try to boost my ego and give you a long list of accomplishments cause I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else for that matter. I've always let my actions speak. I came on here to learn about a set of w2 heads and the hp they can support. You go off on the deep end and make jokes about basement **** and calling me some little boy, because I said i wanted a bad ass street engine. Then treating me like a dumbass because I said I had a edelbrock intake for a 340. I bought two pickup loads of 340 **** off a guy. I havent had time to go write individual part numbers down. Didnt know that would put me into a class of dumbasses. That's ok I'm not some little cry baby liberal give me a "ribbon" boy as you would call me. Good luck man.