lost power and started blowing fuses

[Yearsbehind]

Hello to all Members, hope you are all going to have a great weekend & all in Canada a long weekend.
I have a major problem. I have no power to my car, no headlights, park lights or any power when I turn the key on now, I had power to all my things you need power to except my radio. I was under the dash crimping the power wire to plug into my accessory plug in at the bottom of my fuse box. I was laying on my back and rolled over to plug in the power & my watch hit the alternator housing and sparked. I had the key on & now a blown 30 amp fuse. I was not to sure what happen so I went & got a few more fuses. Put in a new one turned the ignition on & it blew. I have sent pics of Alternator unit. touch side of it. Changed out Unit with a new one thinking I shorted it out. Put in a new fuse, turn ignition on blew another fuse. I took the wires off the back of the alternator sending unit. I put a new fuse in this time it just blows without the ignition being turned on. I chase all the wire from the engine compartment plug ins, & unplug the inside fuse box to see behind it. Can not find any melted wires or any stuck together. Unplug the 3 main harness plugs from under the dash fuse box and put them back together. No fuses blown inside, I go get a firewall ground to the block & installed thinking it might have be that since I was grounded to the front of the engine block but now I can put in a fuse and turn on the key & I have nothing but it is not blowing the fuse??? Sent pics of under dash wires & plug ins & firewall plug ins. The wire that kept blowing is the big red wire (#16 the Battery cable one in the wire Diagrams) in the left long plug lower red wire, looks like the middle one but the far left are to small plug ins, in on the firewall plug ins. It has the fuse to the battery. It comes in the car as the Big Red wire & Black with the black connector in pic # 3. As I have no power inside the car. Ignition problem? Wiring? Please & Thank you very much. Would be Greatly Appreciated

Sincerely, Ted

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Wish I could help you , I am sure I could figure it out if I was there .
Gauge is the ammeter not the alternator , this if wired correctly would carry all of the load from the alt to the fuse panel & the ign switch to read correctly , so you must have grounded that circuit somewhere . Clearly the wiring has had issues in the past , as the red & black wires in the separate connector carry the main power through the firewall & usually are connected through the white 7 pin connector beside it so it has had problems in the past & has been modified using a separate connector .

 

[Challenger RTA]

I didn't read you post yet. Did you do the wiring or was it done before? Just so I know you know or don't know what was done. Read you post. Need a response and I or others will follow up. The diagrams posted are just in general info. If you don't have power. Don't forget about grounds. engine ground is more less isolated. check the chassis ground on the radiator support.

By all means keep the battery disconnected when your not there working on it!

1:RED wire 16 Battery power yellow dot to splice one feeds fuse block, 2:charge wire 18 black wire blue dots to splice one through amp meter to red wire blue dot 16 to battery, 3:ACC feed from splice 1 Red wire Q3_12R yellow dot to steering column. Black wire 12BK red dot to ACC side of fuse box.
Start with a test light on battery to ground. 1 Check to see if you have power at starter relay. 2 unplug bulkhead connector check Red 12 ga wire for power. 3 check fuses box terminal marked BATT for power. 4 Under the steering column unplug connector and check the Red 12 wire. This should always be hot when the battery is connected. The alternator feed will also be hot R6 12 bk.

 

[Yearsbehind]

Morning Chryco Phycho, I wish you were here, lol. Yes, you are right it is a ammeter & you are right about wiring issues from the past because when I bought the car 39 years ago the ammeter in the dash was gone & the 2 wires for the original ammeter were wired together & the first plug in the fire wall was wired up using a yellow extension cord. It ran good back then. I decided to buy a new forward plug in harness and there was a broken off tab I had to pull out before I could put the new one in. That must have been for the dash ammeter originally. You could see it got burnt. It ran good thou but I figured with the new harness & all the work I've done to the car now I would hook up a ammeter. It was all working good til I touched it with the back of my watch to the housing of the ammeter, now I have nothing. I was just blowing fuses, 6 total. First it was when I would turn the ignition on then it was when I would just blow after the 4 time I put a fuse in without the ignition on. I have been chasing wires but looks like I'm going to have to unwrap more tape from the wiring harness under the dash or should I just chase the red & black wires you said were added from the 7 pin connector to the ignition as the ignition switch does not work anymore. I can turn the ignition on now and have nothing but it is not blowing fuses anymore when I turn on like it was when I still had the wires hooked up to the new ammeter. Or should I just hook them 2 wires for the ammeter back together? I just do not know. I tried to follow the ammeter wires back up to the dash but I can't see any melted wires. That is where I need to take more tape off. I have unplugged the new harness to see if anything had melted but it looks good. Both of the big firewall plug ins look ok. Just at a loss now. Thanks for the info

Sincerely, Ted

 

[Yearsbehind]

No I never did anything but get a new forward harness & plugged it in. Everything was working, lights inside on dash, signal lights, headlights Brake lights, Reverse lights. Then I hooked up the ammeter after taking the 2 wires that were taped together. Had the light on the meter working then I rolled over & touch the housing of the ammeter and that's when all went to ****. I will have to chase everything from the front froward harness back into the car. Checking were it was rewired. Thank you for the diagrams. Just seen them. I will look them over good. Thanks again all, greatly Appreciated. I have to leave for a wedding out of town so if I don't response back til tomorrrow, it's because I'm not able too, I'm not ignoring anyone. Thanks again

Sincerely, Ted

 

[Huskidrive]

Check your fusible link......if you have no power at all....

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

You are running a later ignition switch with the factory Molex by-pass for the switch feed (red) and accessory (black). Appears to be wired correctly. Not to be confused with the original red & black ammeter leads. I would be more concerned with why aftermarket ammeter case is, or was hot, appears the mounting bracket has insulators installed under the screws, something real goofy there. How is that aftermarket ammeter wired?
30 amp fuse? What fuse is that? There weren’t any 30 amp fuses originally.

 

[Yearsbehind]

You are running a later ignition switch with the factory Molex by-pass for the switch feed (red) and accessory (black). Appears to be wired correctly. Not to be confused with the original red & black ammeter leads. I would be more concerned with why aftermarket ammeter case is, or was hot, appears the mounting bracket has insulators installed under the screws, something real goofy there. How is that aftermarket ammeter wired?
30 amp fuse? What fuse is that? There weren’t any 30 amp fuses originally.

View attachment 110304

Hello 72RoadRunnerGTX, after I blew the first fuse I put the rubber to insulate the ammeter but blew another fuse so I changed out the Ammeter for a new one but still blew fuses. The reason it is a 30 amp is I bought a 20 amp & 30 amp. the 30 amp wire was the wire size from my battery to the connecting wire going to the firewall. the 20 amp was half the size wire were my old fuse was. I just chased the red wire going in from the battery & it to the firewall & up to behind the dash & it was the red that was taped together with the black one was for the old dash ammeter & it has power to it. Does that mean that they had them put together to complete the power curcuit? I had untapped the Red & Black that were wired & taped & had the Red & Black wires hooked up to the back of the ammeter one on each post. They were the only wires taped together behind the dash so I just assumed they had to be the 2 wires for the ammeter. I have sent a pic of the forward harness when I bought it. Then the wiring from under the dash that comes from the firewall to the inside of car. The Red wire that ran to the original ammeter & the Black that has the yellow connector,wire it was connected to it. The ones that I hooked up to the back of the new ammeter. Then the pic of the ammeter & the hook up spots. Next pics are of the old forward harness, First 2 are the first plug in, in the firewall with the broken tab that was burnt & broken off in the hole. Had to pull it out to put the New harness in. Next is the second plug in for the firewall & looking at it now it is in rough shape. I will look under the dash to see what happen with these wires? Inside looks ok. There's pics of it too. Also back of fuse box which looks ok too. Nothing Melted or stuck together. Thought I would find something but so far nothing that looks like it could be the problem. I will have to send pic of fuse box & 30 amp fuse in next thing I send. Maybe you can see something wrong

 

[Yearsbehind]

Here are more pics of the wiring & fuse box font & back the 30 amp fuse & one single yellow wire coming from the ignition. What do you think that is for? Hoping you might be able help me out on that yellow one. Thanks in advance to all

Sincerely, Ted

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

The first thing jumping out is the mounting bracket for the aftermarket ammeter being bolted to the ammeter terminals. That’s a dead short to the dash frame and even if you could insulate the gauge from the dash, would still short the terminals together, killing any ammeter function altogether. Looks like the 30-amp fuse blowing was installed as a replacement to the original fusible link.

If I understand correctly, you have extended the original ammeter leads to the aftermarket ammeter. Remove those two leads from the aftermarket ammeter, connect together, tape -up, see if you are still blowing fuses. Then figure out how the aftermarket ammeter should be mounted correctly, without shorting the terminals to the mounting bracket.

 

[Yearsbehind]

Hello 72RoadRunnerGTX, I see what you are saying about the aftermarket ammeter shorting out so I changed things with ammeter. I got rid of the holding bracket by taping electrical tape around ammeter to hold it in place & rubber washers but still didn't work. Must have blown that ammeter? Yes, the 30 amp replaced the original fuse link. I put the 2 connectors from the original ammeter back together like it was when I got it & yes I have power again. When I was under the dash looking at the firewall plug I seen another wire that comes from the started relay, in the pic it's just to the right of the black bolt, but it was broken off inside the cab. I think this wire I took a pic of is the wire that broke off but not sure where it plugs in to, maybe the fuse box? I was looking at the pic Challenger RTA sent with the Battery, alternator, starter relay & disconnected ammeter & I see there is a black wire coming from the starter relay back into the firewall & it shows it plugs in the fuse box. But not sure if it is the same wire or not? I am pretty sure the wire I sent pic of goes to that wire that is broke off but does it plug in to the accessory fuse plug in or dose it plug in some where's else? I am sending pics. Hopefully I can get it figured out, with all you members helping me out. Thanks again to all for the Great help

Sincerely, Ted

 

[Yearsbehind]

The first thing jumping out is the mounting bracket for the aftermarket ammeter being bolted to the ammeter terminals. That’s a dead short to the dash frame and even if you could insulate the gauge from the dash, would still short the terminals together, killing any ammeter function altogether. Looks like the 30-amp fuse blowing was installed as a replacement to the original fusible link.

If I understand correctly, you have extended the original ammeter leads to the aftermarket ammeter. Remove those two leads from the aftermarket ammeter, connect together, tape -up, see if you are still blowing fuses. Then figure out how the aftermarket ammeter should be mounted correctly, without shorting the terminals to the mounting bracket.

View attachment 110378

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Hello 72RoadRunnerGTX, I see what you are saying about the aftermarket ammeter shorting out so I changed things with ammeter. I got rid of the holding bracket by taping electrical tape around ammeter to hold it in place & rubber washers but still didn't work. Must have blown that ammeter? Yes, the 30 amp replaced the original fuse link. I put the 2 connectors from the original ammeter back together like it was when I got it & yes I have power again. When I was under the dash looking at the firewall plug I seen another wire that comes from the started relay, in the pic it's just to the right of the black bolt, but it was broken off inside the cab. I think this wire I took a pic of is the wire that broke off but not sure where it plugs in to, maybe the fuse box? I was looking at the pic Challenger RTA sent with the Battery, alternator, starter relay & disconnected ammeter & I see there is a black wire coming from the starter relay back into the firewall & it shows it plugs in the fuse box. But not sure if it is the same wire or not? I am pretty sure the wire I sent pic of goes to that wire that is broke off but does it plug in to the accessory fuse plug in or dose it plug in some where's else? I am sending pics. Hopefully I can get it figured out, with all you members helping me out. Thanks again to all for the Great help

Sincerely, Ted

View attachment 110494



View attachment 110496

Looks like the original clutch pedal safety switch lead, likely removed and by-passed. I see a clutch pedal torque shaft in one of your previous pics indicating an original 4-speed car. Wouldn’t have power associated with it.

It looks the aftermarket ammeter came insulators? At this point I think I would trash that ammeter, and either get another or stick a voltmeter in there if you are not going to repair/replace the original ammeter.

 

[Yearsbehind]

Looks like the original clutch pedal safety switch lead, likely removed and by-passed. I see a clutch pedal torque shaft in one of your previous pics indicating an original 4-speed car. Wouldn’t have power associated with it.

It looks the aftermarket ammeter came insulators? At this point I think I would trash that ammeter, and either get another or stick a voltmeter in there if you are not going to repair/replace the original Hello 72RoadRunnerGTX, my clutch pedal safety switch lead is on the other side of the brake booster & goes to the starter relay too. So still not sure what this other line is for coming in to the cab by the firewall plug in. I will send pic of my clutch safety switch wire. Yes original 4 speed car. At this point no ammeter. I do have a replacement for the original ammeter but a lot of work to replace it, that why I was trying to get away with the aftermarket one but it just caused me more trouble, lol. Hopefully you or someone can help figure out what this other wire is for. Thanks again. Greatly Appreciated
Sincerely, Ted

 

[Yearsbehind]

View attachment 110506

View attachment 110507

My message is in with your message, lol. Don't know how that happened
Ted

 

[Yearsbehind]

My message is in with your message, lol. Don't know how that happened
Ted

My clutch pedal safety switch is on the other side of the brake booster & goes to the starter relay too & is still hooked up. So still not sure where the other wire is suppose to go that comes from the starter relay? So hopefully you can help me out still.
Ted

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

What year is the car?

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

Yea, the clutch pedal switch would be further outboard as you pictured. Then the broken grommeted black wire is likely your 4-speed in-dash reverse lamp indicator lead. Wouldn't be routed to the starter relay however.

 

[Yearsbehind]

I

Yea, the clutch pedal switch would be further outboard as you pictured. Then the broken grommeted black wire is likely your 4-speed in-dash reverse lamp indicator lead. Wouldn't be routed to the starter relay however.

It is a 1973. It's not the reveres switch light as it is under to the left of the firewall plug in & the reverse light is working when I put it in reverse. Pic of reverse wire. It's not to starter relay either. Has to be for something else. Just not sure what, lol
Ted

 

[72RoadRunnerGTX]

For ’73, the factory tach signal wire was grommeted like that in that location but was a grey wire. Is there a factory tach, still functional?