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Wide band vs narrow band

heminut

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Okay, I'm an old school guy and not very up to date on the new stuff, carburetors are more my speed than fuel injection. I am looking at trying using an air fuel gauge to tune my carb and I see both wide band and narrow band setups, with a considerable price difference between the two. My question is, will a narrow band setup work when used as a tuning aid for tuning a carb? I don't want to spend more than I need to to accomplish what I want. This is probably my last build and being retired, I'm on a somewhat limited budget but I don't want to buy something that's not going to let me do what I want. My headers already have O2 bungs so that's not an issue.
 

70chall440

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Wideband Oxygen Sensors Vs. ... Wideband sensors were developed to more accurately measure A/F ratios over a broader range of operating conditions (hence the name). A narrowband sensor can measure only between approximately 14.0/15.0:1 air/fuel ratios to report a rich or lean condition, but a wideband is much more robust
 

heminut

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The narrow band gauge I'm looking at shows an A/F range of 10 to 20.

I still need to know if a narrow band O2 setup will work for tuning a carb.
 
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Cratos

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I use a wide band on mine. it measures in 10th so it is much more accurate.
 

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70chall440

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The narrow band gauge I'm looking at shows an A/F range of 10 to 20.

I still need to know if a narrow band O2 setup will work for tuning a carb.
I think a narrow band would be better than nothing but I don't think it is going to get you where you actually want to be.
 

Steve340

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I did some research on this subject and the wide band is recommended. Can not exactly remember why.
I have an Innovate Motorsports wide band kit it works very well and I purchased it off Summit for around $175
 

Dodgeboy

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I went with a AEM wideband sensor and didigital gauge. It was expensive but makes it real easy. Use a vacuum gauge to set idle and do the rest with the a/f gauge. I didn't want a green/yellow/red light gauge (like edlebrock sells) for a/f ratio.
A narrow band sensor with a volt meter tester is the cheapest but you need a buddy to read the meter while your driving and then figure out what the volt readings mean. Narrow band sensors were used more for a on/off or rich/lean switch when fuel injection started out in the '80's.
 

Rons340

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From my 30+ years of carb. and fuel injection experience I learned that the narrow band O2 sensors were used as a more precise control for the fuel injection systems. The wide band systems were initially used by car manufactures in the early '80s to control CCC systems (computer control carburetor) and early fuel injection systems but as the EPA continued strangling the manufactures for more MPG and less emissions they were forced to develop the narrow band systems for a more precise control of fuel, always looking to attain that elusive 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio. The narrower the band the more precise the fuel control. The theory of operation explains this better but I won't get into that here.

With that short history lesson I would say that the wide band sensor is more usable for us as tuners or use on a Dyno. If you are running fuel injection then that's another conservation altogether. In my opinion, the broadband is better for tuning and the narrow band is better for control.
 

DaveBob

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Okay, I'm an old school guy and not very up to date on the new stuff, carburetors are more my speed than fuel injection. I am looking at trying using an air fuel gauge to tune my carb and I see both wide band and narrow band setups, with a considerable price difference between the two. My question is, will a narrow band setup work when used as a tuning aid for tuning a carb? I don't want to spend more than I need to to accomplish what I want. This is probably my last build and being retired, I'm on a somewhat limited budget but I don't want to buy something that's not going to let me do what I want. My headers already have O2 bungs so that's not an issue.
I am using a wide band sensor (NGK, I recall) that reads out A/F ratio to two decimal places. I am tuning a Carter AVS, so I created a spreadsheet of all the primary jet and metering rod combinations with resulting open area to show richer vs leaner combinations. The jets are in 0.003 increments. The ideal primary jet ended up being 0.092, which I didn't have, (even though I had an AVS strip kit) but I did have a 0.089 jet, which I reamed to size. The external thread on the jet is a standard thread, so I drilled and tapped a hole in a .25 thick aluminum plate to hold the jet on the drill press table. The reamer, including non-standard sizes, like 0.092, are available from McMaster Carr. I used a vacuum gauge to select metering rod springs to eliminate hesitation. I used the old key reminder switch to power a relay that provides power to the stereo and the O2 sensor. That way, by just inserting the ignition key, I can preheat the sensor before starting the motor or listen to the stereo without turning the key to run or accessory.
 

heminut

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I am using a wide band sensor (NGK, I recall) that reads out A/F ratio to two decimal places. I am tuning a Carter AVS, so I created a spreadsheet of all the primary jet and metering rod combinations with resulting open area to show richer vs leaner combinations. The jets are in 0.003 increments. The ideal primary jet ended up being 0.092, which I didn't have, (even though I had an AVS strip kit) but I did have a 0.089 jet, which I reamed to size. The external thread on the jet is a standard thread, so I drilled and tapped a hole in a .25 thick aluminum plate to hold the jet on the drill press table. The reamer, including non-standard sizes, like 0.092, are available from McMaster Carr. I used a vacuum gauge to select metering rod springs to eliminate hesitation. I used the old key reminder switch to power a relay that provides power to the stereo and the O2 sensor. That way, by just inserting the ignition key, I can preheat the sensor before starting the motor or listen to the stereo without turning the key to run or accessory.
I am trying to tune a Carter AFB. I would definitely like to chat with you more as it seems you already have experience with these carbs!
 

Mopar Mitch

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I'd like to get this gauge (wide-band) to better tune my Six-Pack.... I wonder if just one unit is good enough (per one side of exhaust), or else get two units (one for each header at the collector areas). Advice?
 

heminut

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I would say that you only need to run a sensor on one side. The throttle body FI systems only run one sensor to calibrate on the fly.
 

Steve340

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If you have a dual plane manifold sensing in one pipe is at best giving you the average A/F of 4 cylinders.
That would generally be close enough IMO
 

ctaarman

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I use the Innovate kit with the Bosch wideband. I made a portable version that I use on all my cars. Bung is welded into a 15" piece of 2.5 inch exhaust pipe. Made flapper for end that opens based on exhaust gas pressure. Hook it up to my cars exhausts using good old heavy duty aluminum foil. Put gauge in a small box. Power with a cheap battery box. The only thing I can't get as accurate as a permanent one is dynamic reading under load, but I can see power valve operation and get darn close on settings. Total cost under $200.
 
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