Metal Bonding Questions

[chasduster]

Where could you get the duramix system from..I tried looking back in the thread to see.......

 

[chasduster]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8117...tZMotors_Automotive_Tools?hash=item2ea544662f here is one on e-bay...3m duramix gun $169.00


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3M-0...tZMotors_Automotive_Tools?hash=item414b564dcc here is the deal....it's amazing when you have the prt #;s what you can find...this is allot cheaper .......



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3M-0...tZMotors_Automotive_Tools?hash=item3ef32513ec cheaper bonding adhesive

 

[ramenth]

And the nice thing is, the second link would give you the gun, from there you can purchase the material at your local jobber.

As for where I got my Duramix it was from my local jobber. You can sniff around. My paint supply store has moved more towards Fusor because that's where most of the shops have gone, but Napa carries 3M and my Carquest carries Duramix.

 

[CoronetRTguy]

Here is a video on youtube I found using 3M products. It shows the crash test of the panels. I just watched a little of it now watching the whole thing.


Here is a video on youtube I found using 3M products.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7pWRqAZIJM

There is one using Lord Fusor on there as well and its the same one from there site.

I need to look up Duramix but the only two places in town that sells to local shops only have 3M and LORD FUSOR. They didnt really go one over the other. The one place was a 3M store so they pushed that.

 

[chasduster]

cool..I havn't sat down to watch it yet,,but i will...this is the most action this site has seen in a while LOL...keep it going..

 

[ramenth]

cool..I havn't sat down to watch it yet,,but i will...this is the most action this site has seen in a while LOL...keep it going..

You mean besides the hot e-body babes alley keeps feeding us

 

[wolfgang]

so im just wondering can ths be used on floor pans? also i was working on my moms bmw and took note that all the seams used this glue.

 

[ramenth]

so im just wondering can ths be used on floor pans? also i was working on my moms bmw and took note that all the seams used this glue.

Not a problem using it floor pans. Just remember you need a long work time to be able to move it into place. And you need to slide it around once it's made contact, don't try to pick it up and move it again.

Depending on the year and model of your mom's beemer it wouldn't surprise me if it was all bonded together with no welds but a few in key spots to hold everything as the bonds sets. Benz does this and if I'm remembering correctly so does the new Hyundai Genesis.

 

[CoronetRTguy]

ramenth im looking at using this on my floor pans in the trunk, trunk extension, wheel housing and quarters. I know I will need to do some welding like spot or butt welding.

Im not sure how it will work in the trunk as its a full pan. I just gotta get in the car this spring clean up the panels and surface and final fit and do it.

Im not sure how to clamp down everything. My dad is saying it would be hard to clamp wheel housings and trunk pan in a few areas but its something we need to get in and look at.

Im going to talk about this subject on my two blogs one will be a write up and one a video.

www.MoBlogPar.blogspot.com and also at youtube under the name MoBlogPar so stay tunned on that.

ramenth keep the info coming your a wealth of knowledge and someone who uses this product more then we do. My dad used it some like I said 8,9 maybe 10 years ago.

 

[ramenth]

ramenth im looking at using this on my floor pans in the trunk, trunk extension, wheel housing and quarters. I know I will need to do some welding like spot or butt welding.

Im not sure how it will work in the trunk as its a full pan. I just gotta get in the car this spring clean up the panels and surface and final fit and do it.

Im not sure how to clamp down everything. My dad is saying it would be hard to clamp wheel housings and trunk pan in a few areas but its something we need to get in and look at.

Im going to talk about this subject on my two blogs one will be a write up and one a video.

www.MoBlogPar.blogspot.com and also at youtube under the name MoBlogPar so stay tunned on that.

ramenth keep the info coming your a wealth of knowledge and someone who uses this product more then we do. My dad used it some like I said 8,9 maybe 10 years ago.

Clamp what you can where you can using the clamps we all know and love, but for other areas, like the trunk pan on the frame rails, etc, zip screws and rivets will work. If you chose to go rivets, drill them out and fill the holes with bond. Wait until it cures, grind it off, and you won't be able to tell. If you use zip screws, you should be able to back them out. I've had a few which want to stick, not biggie, just grind off the heads, grind off the ends.

 

[ramenth]

I'm gonna follow up my last reply with this one so I can at least be consistent.

I've pointed out that the panel bond could be used on the pans. It can be and has. As for how to clamp it down, think about having to clamp down around the holes you've just drilled in the new panel if you're going to plug weld. If the two panel isn't tight to the frame rail or the next panels seam and you start your weld, the tendency will be for the panel to lift away and you'll wind up with a small gap between the two. Hard to reach in there with clamps, so what to do you do? I've used zip screws to hold the panels tight on either side of the hole, welded, unscrewed the piece and welded the holes shut. Not much different with the panel bond.

That being said, like I've previously stated, considering the pans offer all the lateral strength of the car as it sits on the jig, the jackstands, or even the tires, the tendency will be for the car to do a little twist both diagonally and vertically. For expediency's sake I'd still weld in the pans, just so the car doesn't sit without that bracing for so long. It can be buttoned up in a hurry.

And just like everything: careful measurements of the squares needs to happen before and during.

 

[chasduster]

I like your I dea on the zip/self tapper screws....obviously the smaller the better correct??? I have installed pans in an 70 duster, and it was difficult to hold them down to the frame correctly. I got them there but those darn zip screws would have made it allot easier...I am getting ready to install new ones in my 70 challenger..so this thread is helping me aswell as coronetguy as well.......now I have heard diff senarios on welding the floor pans...either stitch weld...or completly weld them.....I am going stitch weld the challenger ones the seam seal them....

 

[CoronetRTguy]

This is all good info and Im glade to find a few people with knowledge on this subject and not rejecting it like it was on so many other boards that not only I posted this at but a few others.

I think this is the wave of the future and its something Im going to look at more and come spring or summer I will try to move in using it for a few of the panels if not all.

Im taking all the info in from Ramenth and everyone. Thanks guys and keep the info coming.

 

[ramenth]

I like your I dea on the zip/self tapper screws....obviously the smaller the better correct??? I have installed pans in an 70 duster, and it was difficult to hold them down to the frame correctly. I got them there but those darn zip screws would have made it allot easier...I am getting ready to install new ones in my 70 challenger..so this thread is helping me aswell as coronetguy as well.......now I have heard diff senarios on welding the floor pans...either stitch weld...or completly weld them.....I am going stitch weld the challenger ones the seam seal them....

I take it you're talking at the seamed overlaps where the pans meet, say the front pan meets the intermediate (rear toe board) and the intermediate meets the trunk? Or are you laying them in in halves and having to stitch the seam in the middle together?

If you're laying it in in halves I've always stitched a full weld. I'll lay an inch long stitch in the middle, then lay another inch long stitch at each end, split the difference between each end and the middle, lay another stitch, then start bouncing back and forth from there. This allows the previous weld and the sheetmetal around it to cool, eliminating warpage.

But this is also where the metal bond comes in handy. Test fit everything to make sure it's going to line up right. I've had some floorboards drop right together, some that took some splicing here and there to fit. They almost always come with a stepped overlap to lay in to each other. Lay a bead of metal bond along the step once you have one side in place and tied down along the rockers, the reinforcements, what have you, and put the other in one into place. This will be put a corrosion resistant barrier on the seam and eliminate the need for seam sealer unless you want to "hide" the seam.

As for the zip screws, yes, the smaller the better, but with a grip range you need. If you're going to do any plug welding and have six inches between welds, then 1/4" will be over kill, but 3/16" won't hold down that amount of area. Figure if you're going to panel bond then you want to go with the same formula. You want the panel tight along it's length with no gaps, so you'll want to work from the middle out, and make sure that you have no gaps especially underneath.

 

[chasduster]

Just pulled the challenger in last night and will be pulling the carpet, seats console shiter, rear seats out in the next couple of days....I hope I find a build sheet of somesort in there...To get a look at the floors to see what it will take to fix them....me and the hobart 140 have been having a talk to make sure we are on the same page when it comes time....HE agrees with me.....

 

[ramenth]

Just pulled the challenger in last night and will be pulling the carpet, seats console shiter, rear seats out in the next couple of days....I hope I find a build sheet of somesort in there...To get a look at the floors to see what it will take to fix them....me and the hobart 140 have been having a talk to make sure we are on the same page when it comes time....HE agrees with me.....

Glad you and Hobart are on the same page. Always a good idea when the restorer and the tools agree to an approach.

 

[chasduster]

Ok here is a few pics of my floor pans...driver front is the only one that is bad,,thank god....others are in spectacular shape....New one oredered from year one and will be here in 1 to 4 weeks yikes.....no biggie....obviously will not start to cut until part gets here......removed all old seam sealer crap from entire floor ...just fell out of seams any how...and will redue when done....also have 2 qts of chassis saver coming to paint floor same as POR 15, ...I have used on several other floors that I have done and really works well...also...was thinking about that hush mat, fat mat or dyna mat stuff to keep out loud road noises I have read allot on it but it ain't cheap.....all input and comments are welcome.....

 

[ramenth]

chas, I take it you're gonna section that in with a new patch panel? Seems to me (no pun intended) that would be a good candidate for what we've been talking about.

Make sure it's clean of all rust and bond the new panel into place, pulling tight with rivets, zip screws, whatever you feel comfortable with.

This would eliminate the need for seam sealer on the bottom, unless you just wanted that extra piece of mind. Considering this seam, sealer or not, would be prone to more moisture, especially from the bottom side, even sitting on a concrete garage floor during the upstate NY winter months, the bonding material would create the corrosion barrier between the two pieces you'd be looking for.

 

[chasduster]

i was thinking of doing that but i have a $800 welder sitting in the corner ready to go....and don't really have the extra cash for the bonding material and the million dollar gun..right now...with buying the floor pan, gallon of chassis saver, etching primer, weld through primer for the seams and 5 tubes of new seam sealer for the conplete floor I am about spent, .....so I guess I have to weld it in...which will work.... I would love to try this some time but.....

 

[ramenth]

i was thinking of doing that but i have a $800 welder sitting in the corner ready to go....and don't really have the extra cash for the bonding material and the million dollar gun..right now...with buying the floor pan, gallon of chassis saver, etching primer, weld through primer for the seams and 5 tubes of new seam sealer for the conplete floor I am about spent, .....so I guess I have to weld it in...which will work.... I would love to try this some time but.....

I understand completely about the invest already being made and going with what you've got.

I like the pic, though, since it is a good example of what we've been talking about. Call it a good illustration for this type of usage in metal bonding for those who may be thinking along these routes.