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Which Bergeson Power steering box 1-1/8" or 1-1/4" section width?

moparlifer

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I am getting parts to put a 6.4 crate motor in my 70 Barracuda and want to get the smaller Borgeson unit.
The Borgeson site shows two PS boxes 1-1/8 and 1-1/4 section width.
Is the section width the od of the steering shaft? (seems not, since it looks to be under 1" diameter).
or is the section width the od of the male splined steering shaft on the bottom of the PS box the goes into the pitman arm?
Any body know what the "section width" is and what a 1970 barracuda section width is?
I did a search the forum and internet and no luck.
Thanks for the help!
 

scar426

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Pitman arm. The small block cars I believe originally came with the 1-1/4 and the Big blocks with the 1-1/8th. Measure your pitman arm shaft to be sure (people change things throughout the years for whatever reason, lol.) Am the 6.4 is bigger than a big block, so might just need that extra room and if it is the larger one, might be worth changing some other parts out while you're at it. ;)
 

Bret Schneider

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I'd suggest talking to Peter Bergman at Bergman Auto Craft with any questions you might have on the Borgeson steering unit. Very knowledgeable guy who will be able to answer any questions you might have.
 

tonysrt

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I have a 71 Cuda and it had the smaller pitman arm and I went to the bigger size when I went to a steer & gear box and then I went to the borgeson with the bigger size pitman arm and no problems at all.
 

moparlifer

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Thanks for the insights!
Bergman looks like the place to get the unit since they seem very knowledgeable and can set me up correctly the first time.
 

Steve340

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Early cars have the 1 1/8 and later cars use the 1 1/4
Not exactly sure but I believe the change over point is around 1972.
If you are replacing the pitman arm I would go with the larger one.
The box is the same physical size it is only the shaft diameter that is different.
Peter Bergman has either size.
 

moparlifer

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Early cars have the 1 1/8 and later cars use the 1 1/4
Not exactly sure but I believe the change over point is around 1972.
If you are replacing the pitman arm I would go with the larger one.
The box is the same physical size it is only the shaft diameter that is different.
Peter Bergman has either size.
Thanks, this is good info. I think i have the larger size as I recall I got a longer arm for quick ratio. As I understand it the longer Pitman arm needs the longer C-body drag-link arm on the pass side no?
about half my stuff is still in boxes. I'll dig though everything and find my old box and arms and then get on the horn with Peter.
are the longer arms a PITA and hit the frame or headers that will limit the steering travel? IF so maybe not a great idea?
 

Steve340

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Just my thoughts but if you use the Borgeson I would use the stock length pitman and idler arms.
The new box is much "quicker"" than the standard box.
See what Peter Bergan thinks he is very helpful and he would have the experience of installing a number of the units.
 

Mopar Mitch

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Just my thoughts but if you use the Borgeson I would use the stock length pitman and idler arms.
The new box is much "quicker"" than the standard box.
See what Peter Bergan thinks he is very helpful and he would have the experience of installing a number of the units.
I am most curious to responses from anyone using the Borgns'n box... with the longer "fast ratio" pitman arm... and also using the required longer C-body idler arm (so to make the L-R turns equal distance in radius... where-as the T/A factory setup was a mistake).

Personally, I'd want the fastest setup possible... and it still wouldn't be as fast a the latest modern pony cars have (GM and Ford).

The only issue you'd have with the longer Pitman arm (Fast Ratio) is with a BB engine and headers (pending brand design)... I'm aware tht some headers need to be dinged for clearance of the longer pitman arm... primarily BB engines.... but it can be dinged as necessary for clearance... I know of BB owners who've done it. SB.. no problems (unless its TTi headers... which no-one seems to know... not even TTi staff people!). Hooker SB 5115.. no problems at all (I run them).

Now... with a Gen-3 Hemi, pending exhaust... that's an entirely different situation... let us know... new discoveries!
 

Rons340

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I have the Borgeson gear on my Challenger with the standard length pitman arm and idler arm. 3 turns stop to stop. Very smooth and responsive. I have been very well pleased with the performance and it leaves tons more clearance for headers!
You will also need the joint to connect it to your factory steering column. Other than that, plug and play. :)
 

moparlifer

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I have the Borgeson gear on my Challenger with the standard length pitman arm and idler arm. 3 turns stop to stop. Very smooth and responsive. I have been very well pleased with the performance and it leaves tons more clearance for headers!
You will also need the joint to connect it to your factory steering column. Other than that, plug and play. :)
Thanks, good to know as I likely will be getting headers at some point.
 

Drivun

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Dont use the fast ratio pitman/idlers with the Borgeson. I just went thru this this month - had the fast set up and then added the Borgeson. Horrible low speed parking was embarassing at car shows. Then lost all power steering running Georgia mountain roads. Upgraded power steering pump to Borgeson GM style but no better. Read a post that if a fast steer takes stock 16:1 to 12:1 then the Borgeson will end up going 14.7:1 to 10.7:1. That’s way to aggressive for the pump. Went back to stock and everything is great - parking lot, hiway and mountain roads.
 

Drivun

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Also on the question of long pitman/idler arm on small blocks, I used them with both TTI long and short headers but passenger side requires a 1/2 -3/4 dimple for clearance.
 

moparlifer

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Dont use the fast ratio pitman/idlers with the Borgeson. I just went thru this this month - had the fast set up and then added the Borgeson. Horrible low speed parking was embarassing at car shows. Then lost all power steering running Georgia mountain roads. Upgraded power steering pump to Borgeson GM style but no better. Read a post that if a fast steer takes stock 16:1 to 12:1 then the Borgeson will end up going 14.7:1 to 10.7:1. That’s way to aggressive for the pump. Went back to stock and everything is great - parking lot, hiway and mountain roads.
Wow,
Thanks for the insight.
This is why we ask to avoid the same mistakes other have made and help others do the same.
 

Mopar Mitch

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Also on the question of long pitman/idler arm on small blocks, I used them with both TTI long and short headers but passenger side requires a 1/2 -3/4 dimple for clearance.
Which power steering pumps have you been using? Federal or Saginaw? The Federal is the one to avoid as it doesn't offer enough assist when needed.

T/Anks for the TTi SB info.
 

moparmarks

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Early cars have the 1 1/8 and later cars use the 1 1/4
Not exactly sure but I believe the change over point is around 1972.
If you are replacing the pitman arm I would go with the larger one.
The box is the same physical size it is only the shaft diameter that is different.
Peter Bergman has either size.
1974 was the change for B bodies.
 

Drivun

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Which power steering pumps have you been using? Federal or Saginaw? The Federal is the one to avoid as it doesn't offer enough assist when needed.

T/Anks for the TTi SB info.
Had a Federal originally with Firm Feel 3 and then Borgeson last summer. With Covid never had much opportunity to run the car hard until this year. When mountain pass failure happened research showed Federal could be problem so I upgraded to Saginaw. However still crap at low speeds and tite turns. Thats when further forum research brought up issue with Fast ratio arms and Borgeson. I wrote Borgeson about fast ratio pitmans but never got response. Frustrated I bought the stock ratio set up and BINGO ! Nice firm but responsive steering.
 

BergmanAutoCraft

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Let us know with any questions. Our kits are 100% bolt in. We sell pumps, brackets, pullies and everything needed for 9 years now.
 

Dustu

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Will you be at Indy Swap Meet fri. and sat. this week ? Any discounts ?
 
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