.509 cam streetability.

[bullet18]

I bought a .509 cam and lifters at the nats for $50. I know, a used flat tappet cam is a bad idea but i figured for $50 its worth a shot. If not only to get experience breaking in a cam. Curently the car has a 78 low comp (7.5 maybe 8.0:1 actual compression) motorhome 440 in it with an 850 thermoquad long tube headers, and a performer 440 intake. I need a new torque converter and gears anyway because the stock motorhome converter and 2.76s aren't gonna cut it so what stall speed and gears should i look at to make this thing driveable on the street if its even possible with this setup? I know im gonna need a vacuum pump for the insane duration. Im well aware its not even close to ideal for my setup but id figure id ask. Ive got plenty of other stuff to worry about in the mean time but it wouldn't hurt to start looking for deals on gears and a converter.

 

[challenger6pak]

Pretty much, with your set up, it won't work. You don't have enough compression or the right carb. The thermoquad has vaccum secondaries that won't have enough vaccum to open in time to stop a bog down of the motor. You can get light springs for the secondaries but they are hard to come by and are pricey in a strip kit. You will need a higher stall converter. You can get by with the factory higher stall converter that has the wide ring on it, but it is not optimal. 10:1 compression, 3:91 gears and a 4 speed or 3000 stall converter is where this cam is happy from my experience. I like the sound of the cam even though it is not as efficient as a new Hughes cam.

 

[aussiemark]

Maybe get another profile ground on this cam?

 

[moparleo]

Sell it and get some more parts for your 440.

 

[aussiemark]

Yeah sell it ,you have to put the lifters on the same lobes they were run on so if there mixed up it's no good and if you get it reground they will probably stuff it up anyway.

 

[challenger6pak]

Post a close up picture of the cam lobes.

 

[69hemibeep]

To big for the compression ratio don't waste your time and money

 

[mmissile]

Agree with beep. Your effective compression ratio will be lower, and that thing will be lethargic. It'll sound lumpy....with no "pop". Also, in the scheme of performance things....that's a mild street-cam.

 

[bullet18]

Thanks for the responses. Alright, i guess ill sell it or maybe try to trade it for parts. Im looking into putting 440 source stealth heads on this summer. They supposedly flow 290 at .500 OOTB(i doubt it but theyve gotta flow a lot better than 452s) and theyll bump my compression a little. Ill look into a new cam then. I dont really want to touch the rotating assembly since im gonna put in a stroker kit eventually anyway. Ive seen a dyno pull of a low comp 440 with a .509 and it added like 50hp over the stock cam which is why i was considering it, but i know theres more to a cam than wide open dyno pulls.

 

[mmissile]

I'd just do the complete engine build, and not spend money... twice. My 2-cents.

 

[69hemibeep]

Here is an idea that I have done. Spend a few more bucks for these heads and with the 75cc chamber and .027 Cometic head gaskets you get some real compression. I did it to a smogger like yours and if memory serves it came in at 9.3 to 1 Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads 5090

 

[aussiemark]

If you do get the Stealth heads use better quality hardware I think they have an upgrade option for them (from memory). Your plan of doing the bolt on upgrades is a good idea latter on you can build the bottom end or even find a built short motor at a good price and re use all your bolt ons (no money waisted). 9/10 times when a bottom end goes bad the heads will survive but if a head goes it will take the bottom end with it so putting money into the top end is a good idea and that's where you can get the biggest bang for your buck. Just don't make the mistake of having your new heads machined to get compression with the old pistons or latter on when you get good pistons you will regret it.

 

[aussiemark]

Here is an idea that I have done. Spend a few more bucks for these heads and with the 75cc chamber and .027 Cometic head gaskets you get some real compression. I did it to a smogger like yours and if memory serves it came in at 9.3 to 1 Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads 5090

Good reviews and the price is for a pair so good price. Angle plugs may cause exhaust header problems do they have a straight plug version? the Stealth heads have straight plugs. What headers are you using with your E Streets?

 

[bullet18]

Here is an idea that I have done. Spend a few more bucks for these heads and with the 75cc chamber and .027 Cometic head gaskets you get some real compression. I did it to a smogger like yours and if memory serves it came in at 9.3 to 1 Edelbrock E-Street Cylinder Heads 5090

I actually want to keep the compression a little lower because the stroker kit is gonna bump it and i may want to add forced induction later on.

 

[challenger6pak]

Everything with motors comes in groups. If you change one thing, you have to change another. I have found it is easier to have two motors. Do a few things to this motor with the compression ratio, etc. that you have. Contact Hughes. They may have a cam that works with what you have. While you use this motor with a matched group, you can build your forced induction motor with a matched group for it. You can add the wrong performance parts to an engine group and make the car slower.

 

[bullet18]

Everything with motors comes in groups. If you change one thing, you have to change another. I have found it is easier to have two motors. Do a few things to this motor with the compression ratio, etc. that you have. Contact Hughes. They may have a cam that works with what you have. While you use this motor with a matched group, you can build your forced induction motor with a matched group for it. You can add the wrong performance parts to an engine group and make the car slower.

I mean i literally have a spare 440 (albeit with no compression anywhere) sitting in my garage. If i put new heads on the motor in the car i can put those old heads on my no comp motor and see if that helps(i think the valves might not be sealing). Then ill have 2 working motors to throw parts at.

 

[aussiemark]

I would leave the runner in the car and just use it while collecting the parts and then build the not running engine that's in the garage. Strip it and get the block checked out to make sure it is good before you pay to have any machining done. Save up for your stroker kit, heads and other parts then when you have everything stockpiled get it done then sell the running engine that's now in the car.

 

[bullet18]

I would leave the runner in the car and just use it while collecting the parts and then build the not running engine that's in the garage. Strip it and get the block checked out to make sure it is good before you pay to have any machining done. Save up for your stroker kit, heads and other parts then when you have everything stockpiled get it done then sell the running engine that's now in the car.

The problem is its gonna take me years to get the money for the stroker kit and id like the challenger to be faster than my Nissan Altima before then. Im planning on throwing whichever heads i buy on the one in the car and i can save up for the rest then. I figure its better than letting them sit waiting for the stroker and they'll still be better than the 452s in every way even if they have 84cc combustion chambers the cr will still go up.