No problem at all..
'70 Vert - waited long enough...
- Thread starter Cuda416
- Start date
larry4406
Well-Known Member
Not pictures of my vert, but ones I have saved over the years. Hope these help. I think these are from a '70 barracuda/cuda vert. Not sure what site I downloaded these from or who posted them. Thanks to the original poster whomever you are.
I will keep searching my computer.
Surfcuda
Well-Known Member
Hope these can help you. My Verts in Paint/Body Prison currently or I would get you better photos.
Hope these can help you. My Verts in Paint/Body Prison currently or I would get you better photos.
Thank you both very much, any pictures will help for sure. I've collected a ton so far but nothing up close. So far it looks like that area is made up of at least two different parts and possibly more. Sometimes ya look at these things and think "What the F*** were they thinking...."....
larry4406
Well-Known Member
Some additional links for you..
See Post 50 and 107
Maybe some tidbits in here
moparconnectionmagazine.com
More tibbits..
See Post 50 and 107
A.G.A.R. 1970 Barracuda Convertible.....IMPORTANT UPDATE !! in Your Restoration project (ROSEVILLE MOPARTS) - Page 4
Yes: I bought a MIG welder before a lot of local bodyshops had them. A lot of experts told me to overlap rather than butt weld too. Too their credit t
forum.e-bodies.org
Maybe some tidbits in here
Gallery: The AMD Installation Center & Classic Muscle Metal Resurrect the “Comeback Cuda” - Mopar Connection Magazine | A comprehensive daily resource for Mopar enthusiast news, features and the latest Mopar tech
After avoiding a herd of deer and taking out a solid stone mail box, and both the insurance adjuster and body shop pronouncing the car’s death prematurely, we were left with very little hope for our ’70 Plymouth ‘Cuda convertible. Now, we had seen first hand what the AMD Installation Center was...
moparconnectionmagazine.com
More tibbits..
Convertible rocker panels in Body Shop
I cut away the lower left over pieces of my quarter today. Never been inside this area before, there is the outer rocker panel, then another piece tha
forum.e-bodies.org
larry4406
Well-Known Member
This is a 1970 Challenger vert. These were posted by Erik70RT, not sure which forum.
This is a Challenger, not sure where I found this.
This is a Challenger, not sure where I found this.
Made some progress over the last few days, including opening up the quarters, removing the upper cowl, bracing the rockers to the jig and supporting the windshield frame to prevent any movement while working on the rockers and hinge area.
Next up I'm thinking about cutting the front frame rails off since they will get replaced anyway and aren't good reference points for measurements due to collision damage. I happen to have a complete front clip from a challenger I'll use to measure against and possibly add some accurate jig points for the new frame rails.
Next up I'm thinking about cutting the front frame rails off since they will get replaced anyway and aren't good reference points for measurements due to collision damage. I happen to have a complete front clip from a challenger I'll use to measure against and possibly add some accurate jig points for the new frame rails.
Question for the experts.
What would be the best way to replace the rocker/hinge panel/inner cowl for the first steps.
My thought process is...
1. Peel away the outer rocker (bottom of the hinge panel is rusted away to there shouldn't be a clearance issue).
2. Remove and examine the internal beam from the outer rocker.
3. Remove the inner rocker
4. Remove the inner cowl panel
5. Install new inner rocker
6. Install new inner cowl
7. Install beam into outer rocker
8. Install outer rocker and end front cap.
9. Install inner cowl panel
10. install hinge panel.
This is a point of zero return for me and the first removal of anything that provides real structure so I'm hoping some of you who have gone before could chime in on this and comment if need be. Be brutal, I can take it, just be productive as well please. Pointing out I'm a moron for doing this doesn't get this thing any closer to being back on the road. lol.
the car is supported at the front and rear spring shackles, fronts of the rear frame rails, torsion bar cross member and the front frame rails. Keeping in mind the tbcm and front rails are getting replaced as well, I'll not be doing a lot of welding to them, rather I'll add some additional bracing to the jig most likely.
That all said and done, I'm considering putting the dynacorn rear assembly in place first so I have something else to tack the inner rockers to.
Thoughts?
-=C
What would be the best way to replace the rocker/hinge panel/inner cowl for the first steps.
My thought process is...
1. Peel away the outer rocker (bottom of the hinge panel is rusted away to there shouldn't be a clearance issue).
2. Remove and examine the internal beam from the outer rocker.
3. Remove the inner rocker
4. Remove the inner cowl panel
5. Install new inner rocker
6. Install new inner cowl
7. Install beam into outer rocker
8. Install outer rocker and end front cap.
9. Install inner cowl panel
10. install hinge panel.
This is a point of zero return for me and the first removal of anything that provides real structure so I'm hoping some of you who have gone before could chime in on this and comment if need be. Be brutal, I can take it, just be productive as well please. Pointing out I'm a moron for doing this doesn't get this thing any closer to being back on the road. lol.
the car is supported at the front and rear spring shackles, fronts of the rear frame rails, torsion bar cross member and the front frame rails. Keeping in mind the tbcm and front rails are getting replaced as well, I'll not be doing a lot of welding to them, rather I'll add some additional bracing to the jig most likely.
That all said and done, I'm considering putting the dynacorn rear assembly in place first so I have something else to tack the inner rockers to.
Thoughts?
-=C
Last edited:
Made some progress again this weekend. Most of my time was taken up working on our engine run stand with my son but I started peeling the outer rocker away. The more I get into this, the more I am learning how these things were assembled and what it's going to take to fix.
Quick question for those in the know... On the hinge panels, both sides, there is a "divet" about 2/3 from the bottom. It seems like it could be a reference point checking position but I can't find any info about it. Anyone know what they are for?
Made some rocker progress this weekend, then ran out of mig wire so I couldn't brace the door jambs (which I should have done before starting....).
The part where the rocker passes under the jamb is proving to be a challenge. The rest is ready to drop.
The part where the rocker passes under the jamb is proving to be a challenge. The rest is ready to drop.
6PKRTSE
Well-Known Member
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Yes, you should have x braced the door jams from the inside before you started. I would triple check all of the door openings at this point and maybe even re-mount the door hinges and doors to confirm that all still fits and functions as it should now before you weld back in the new metal.
I'll do more but I took measurements before taking things down and rechecked them after this. so far so good. Reinstalling the doors is probably the best thing to do, thanks.
Alright folks, quick status update and sanity check.
I haven't gotten the doors back on for lack of assistance so I bought a door dolly which as it turns out is just a hair too short but I'll address that this weekend by removing the feet of the jig which will lower it by a couple of inches.
I really want to leave the windows inside the doors until it's time to handle the windshield frame to make sure I keep the correct angle. I'm thinking the side glass should be a decent reference for that along with the top mechanism for ensuring the W/F is correctly positioned etc.
So, now my plan is to put the doors on but not by the hinges (they need rebuilding anyway, kits on the way) but rather align them to rocker (front vertical door/rocker line and lower door/rocker gap and rear door top/ jam top) and tack them in place using some small squares of 14 or 16g . I'm thinking this will tell me whether or not the rear vertical door gap is even close to being parallel. Seems to me as long as the bottom is right, then the rear "should" be even if the gap is too large. Looking at it, I'm concerned the rear if the car isn't high enough and might need to be raised a bit.
Keep in mind, this car has flexed in the middle from day one when I bought it and removing what was left of the car only made it worse.
I have the various iterations of the chassis measurements and visited countless forums that debate how accurate they are. It's fair well known that measurement "D" for instance isn't supposed to be over 18 inches, but rather a tad over 15. There seems to be some disagreement on what it is exactly given that the location it points to, to me anyway, is a spot right behind the shock crossmember, that's at a slight angle. So I have questions.....
From a datum line of 6", what should the heights be for...
1. "D" on the drawings, behind the shock crossmember, and where exactly on the frame rail does it reference?
2. Height of the rear shackle centerlines or some other consistent location at the extreme rear? I was given some measurements but I'm curious how consistent they are from car to car.
3. Proper height of the front frame rails and again, exactly where the measurements are taken from.
The reason for using the rear shackles as a location is my passenger side rail is crumbling so I don't trust it for alignment purposes.
Anyway, I'm appealing to those with more experience/knowledge for getting this correct.
To summarize, I'll....
Mount the doors with internals still installed.
Check/verify gaps based on the existing opening.
Verify rear positioning/alignment.
Install cross brace between the jams.
Assuming the doors are correctly positioned, check and adjust the angle of the windshield frame.
Anything I'm missing? Is this direction doomed to fail? What if anything should I do in addition or differently?
I haven't gotten the doors back on for lack of assistance so I bought a door dolly which as it turns out is just a hair too short but I'll address that this weekend by removing the feet of the jig which will lower it by a couple of inches.
I really want to leave the windows inside the doors until it's time to handle the windshield frame to make sure I keep the correct angle. I'm thinking the side glass should be a decent reference for that along with the top mechanism for ensuring the W/F is correctly positioned etc.
So, now my plan is to put the doors on but not by the hinges (they need rebuilding anyway, kits on the way) but rather align them to rocker (front vertical door/rocker line and lower door/rocker gap and rear door top/ jam top) and tack them in place using some small squares of 14 or 16g . I'm thinking this will tell me whether or not the rear vertical door gap is even close to being parallel. Seems to me as long as the bottom is right, then the rear "should" be even if the gap is too large. Looking at it, I'm concerned the rear if the car isn't high enough and might need to be raised a bit.
Keep in mind, this car has flexed in the middle from day one when I bought it and removing what was left of the car only made it worse.
I have the various iterations of the chassis measurements and visited countless forums that debate how accurate they are. It's fair well known that measurement "D" for instance isn't supposed to be over 18 inches, but rather a tad over 15. There seems to be some disagreement on what it is exactly given that the location it points to, to me anyway, is a spot right behind the shock crossmember, that's at a slight angle. So I have questions.....
From a datum line of 6", what should the heights be for...
1. "D" on the drawings, behind the shock crossmember, and where exactly on the frame rail does it reference?
2. Height of the rear shackle centerlines or some other consistent location at the extreme rear? I was given some measurements but I'm curious how consistent they are from car to car.
3. Proper height of the front frame rails and again, exactly where the measurements are taken from.
The reason for using the rear shackles as a location is my passenger side rail is crumbling so I don't trust it for alignment purposes.
Anyway, I'm appealing to those with more experience/knowledge for getting this correct.
To summarize, I'll....
Mount the doors with internals still installed.
Check/verify gaps based on the existing opening.
Verify rear positioning/alignment.
Install cross brace between the jams.
Assuming the doors are correctly positioned, check and adjust the angle of the windshield frame.
Anything I'm missing? Is this direction doomed to fail? What if anything should I do in addition or differently?
pschlosser
Well-Known Member
these cars flex, I think the convertible more so than the hard top. The flex may be related to where we lift a big block car, too. I've seen the reveal (the gap) around the doors change after lifting the front of the 440 hardtop car at the K-frame-sway bar area, and I can get it to return to normal by lifting just behind the front wheels, at the fender to cowl area.
if you're straitening the frame, you may do so without the engine and trans installed. But if this is a big block car, perhaps with auto trans, things may change again once you get everything bolted in place. so be prepared for some late tweaking of the doors, if you're seeking perfection.
In contrast, a 1970 Barracuda 318-2 Convertible I drove for a time didn't seem to move at all, when varying the lift points. So this may be more of a big block issue than with small.
if you're straitening the frame, you may do so without the engine and trans installed. But if this is a big block car, perhaps with auto trans, things may change again once you get everything bolted in place. so be prepared for some late tweaking of the doors, if you're seeking perfection.
In contrast, a 1970 Barracuda 318-2 Convertible I drove for a time didn't seem to move at all, when varying the lift points. So this may be more of a big block issue than with small.
Thanks, I wish it were that simple. My car sat in a single car garage in MN for 34 years rotting from the inside out. I think the only part on the car lacking substantial rust is the top pump motor bracket lol.
Seriously though if you look through the thread you'll see. It's bad.
Flex is one thing but we're talking on the verge of folding....
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