74 Challenger. No sheetmetal to be harmed and adding twins

[74chlngrTT5.9]

Ok, Time to start writing instead of just lurking. I have had this car since 1984.
I have also started a thread on another forum but here feels more appropriate for the knowledge and feedback you all have here.
The build is to be primarily focused on the go parts and later turning to the body and paint.
I have been following some of the full restorations on here and I can only imagine the amount of detailed work that is required to complete them.
Mine is a California car that has been garaged most of its life. It has always been drivable. Only a single front fender and door have been patched and repainted on the car. This happened before I got it back in 84. The hood was painted also because it is a later addition to the car. All else is still the original paint. Many places it is so thin you can see through it. One small patch of rust in lower rear quarter. In front of wheel well from a plugged drain hole :-(. Premise of this build is to add twins with dual air to air IC's. Two things I am fairly retentive about with the car are. #1 is that if I cannot build it without bastardizing the sheet metal then it will not happen. The second item is that with twins all is visually symmetrical. Car started life as a very low end base model. 318, 3spd stick and power nothing. So changing the mechanicals doesn't mean much to me. Car now has a 360 LA with the A833 four speed (yes Pistol grip) Power steering added (tuff wheel too). I have gained a lot of weight over all the years of owning this and am still only up to a buck 70. PS is way needed... Also added Power brakes to the car way back when. Plans for now are: 2001 5.9 motor. Already have good low mileage one that will get a refurb when the time comes. Reasoning for the later model 5.9 is that the P/S pump and alternator are mounted much closer to the motor. The WP is also somewhere around 2 inches shorter. The shorter W/pump is what ended up allowing my plan to work being retentive about the sheet metal.
Eddy heads -Need/want-
T3/4 Eb@y turbos -Have- 4 speed to remain (for now).
M1 intake. I will be going fuel injection. Probably blow through carb with the initial startup when motor is swapped in.
Megasquirt most likely. LS coils with crank and cam triggers probable Fuel system not decided.
Custom tank with internal pump. Not interested in hearing the pump drone on.
Probably Hotchkiss frame connectors.
All the hot side piping to be SS. welded by me. Cold side to be as mentioned above dual intercoolers with custom tanks. Aluminum piping also welded by me.
Brakes to be converted to Hydroboost Car will also get air added. Many of the items listed are already partially started. I tend to bounce around a lot. Start a project. let it sit... think about it for awhile... let it sit... figure it out and then jump on it until the next thought session. Goals for the motor are to reach around 550 bhp. This is a home built project and it will be a 100% street car. All items are subject to change based on funds and input from the many members that are sure to know more than me.
Main item is car will not be out of commission for any long duration. I also have a 68 Mustang (N/A) that was down for 17 years. Ain't gonna happen again...
I will be cutting and pasting for a bit to get this up to current day.

Hope this was posted in the correct section thanks
Mike.

 

[ramenth]

This should be a fun build to watch come together.

 

[moparleo]

I can't wait to start helping you. Whether you like it or not. JK

 

[74chlngrTT5.9]

I can't wait to start helping you. Whether you like it or not. JK

Thanks.
I am open to any critique and can throw it back with the best of them if warranted.

This is a home build and as you can see, not much room to maneuver because the cars literally have to be parked within inches of each other, the wife will not even attempt to pull in or out her car.
And NO I don't live in Pico...


I did make a shed on the side of the house for my "shop".


One of the things on my bucket list was to change out the power brakes to be hydroboost assisted. This was to be later down the road in my build but recently during a ride, The pedal started to fade at a signal.
Thought of changing just the cylinder out but ended up not wanting to buy parts to later throw out.
JY shopping I found that all the "boost" systems that mount on the firewall are 90% the same, Looked at suburbans, heavy trucks from Dodge, Ford and Chevy. Eventually I chose to use one from a later Mustang.
I chose this one because: 1) I figured that replacement masters would be easier to purchase if I needed to alter for better performance. 2) They all have some type of a pressure canister on them, and with this unit rotated, the canister ends up farther away from the motor which will end up giving me more room for the exhaust piping.



The bolt pattern on 3 of the 4 holes ended up being the same as the car. From the factory the car has two bolt patterns already in the firewall. The smaller pattern for the manual mount originally in the car and the larger pattern for the power setup I added in many years ago. There was one mount hole on the new system that was offset, so all I did was drill another one that matches the car in the unit's existing mounting plate. I did want to use the stock push rod in the hydroboost but would have had to make a firewall spacer plate that was around 1-1/2 inches thick. It would have looked like crap so I cut the existing rod's "eye" end off and machined up a shorter end for it and welded it back together. I would have had to make some type of adapter for the "eye" end diameter anyway. The firewall has a large opening, so I made a 1/2 inch thick adapter plate that covers all the existing mounting holes and rod opening. It is all sealed off with an 1/8 thick sheet of rubber.
Had some custom made hoses made to connect the pressure side of the PS pump to the unit and from it to the gear box. There is also a drain hose I "T"d to the PS return line.
Also fabbed up the new master cylinder brake lines. One end has the double inverted flare for existing proportioning valve. The new MC end has some type of bubble end. purchased tube with the bubble ends on them already. Cut one end off and made my own inverted flare.



The whole modification was much easier than I had anticipated.

Another change is the usual relocation of the battery to the trunk. Welded up some small box tubing saved from an old back yard fence lol. Even used the existing grommet holes to route the cable thru.



Wiring is functional for now but it looks like dung. It will be changed for the better later by adding a power block when converting to the EFI setup. Plan is to add new harnesses as needed for the changes and at same time rendering more and more of the old wiring obsolete.


Mike.

 

[moparleo]

Looking good Mike, but lose the heater hose clamps on the hydro-boost and get high pressure clamps for it.

 

[74chlngrTT5.9]

Looking good Mike, but lose the heater hose clamps on the hydro-boost and get high pressure clamps for it.

Thanks,

2 of the hoses are pressure lines and they are the proper crimped connections. The hose clamps are only on the low pressure drain line. It "T"s into the low pressure hose that returns from the gear box.
There is a local shop that provides conversion systems such as this. They helped me out even though I was only buying custom hoses instead of one their complete systems.

Mike.

 

[moparleo]

Remember it is always better to have more than you need than to have less than you need.

 

[74chlngrTT5.9]

One of the reasons I have found extra time to work on the car and post is that I am on an extended "vacation".
Couple of months ago I walked out of a job I have had for 27 years.
Big pill to swallow but was needed.
Short reason is that when you work for a family owned company. They will not fire their offspring even if company is suffering from it...
Since I have been working under the dash for the brake system setup, I decided to tackle one of the items that has been ignored for awhile and eliminate the full power amp gauge wiring issue the older Dodges have.
So now time to tear into it and get it bypassed so this doesn't go up in flames. I will be following the MAD article.


Pulling off the power connections to review, they do look to have issues. Lots of corrosion but good news is there is no melting evident.




Mike.

 

[moparleo]

An excellent idea. This should be done on all Mopar 60-70 muscle car era wiring. Also excellent time to clean all electrical contacts and seal with dielectric grease.

 

[ramenth]

An excellent idea. This should be done on all Mopar 60-70 muscle car era wiring. Also excellent time to clean all electrical contacts and seal with dielectric grease.

I'll throw it out there that no matter what car you're working on, anytime you have a pigtail unhooked is a good time for cleaning and putting it back together with dielectric grease. I don't know how many times I'd have something come in with the MIL on that could be traced back to corrosion.

Mike, I hear you about the family owned operation. I was once offered a job managing a local repair/tire shop. I turned it down because the company was top heavy with the owner's high school buddies. Every shop he owned was "general managed" by a buddy. Now, if the shop is sucking out who do you think the s*** rolling down hill would spatter over.

Have you felt the pedal on the hydroboost, yet? I'm thinking of going this route with one of my projects, but never really liked the feel of it. But, it's something I believe I could get used to.

 

[74chlngrTT5.9]

I'll throw it out there that no matter what car you're working on, anytime you have a pigtail unhooked is a good time for cleaning and putting it back together with dielectric grease. I don't know how many times I'd have something come in with the MIL on that could be traced back to corrosion.

Mike, I hear you about the family owned operation. I was once offered a job managing a local repair/tire shop. I turned it down because the company was top heavy with the owner's high school buddies. Every shop he owned was "general managed" by a buddy. Now, if the shop is sucking out who do you think the s*** rolling down hill would spatter over.

Have you felt the pedal on the hydroboost, yet? I'm thinking of going this route with one of my projects, but never really liked the feel of it. But, it's something I believe I could get used to.

Family shop is still growing. Up from around 10 when I started to around 150 employees. Problem is there are 4 executive paychecks now sucking it dry instead of one. Way too much on the shoulders of who got them there without anything in return. 12-15 hours a day on salary compensation based on 8 with no end in sight. Now time for family and life. Got skills and should get employed again when ready.

Yes, I have driven the car now for a bit with the hydroboost. It does feel different but not to where I would question the change on something else again. As noted, one of the things I had to do was cut the push rod shorter that mounts to the pedal mechanism. In my setup I utilized the higher mounting positions on the firewall. I believe the lower firewall bolt pattern is used for the manual brake systems. The systems plunger rod might then directly mount to the brake pedal, not to a half shaft as mine does. This setup would most likely allow the standard (as purchased) shaft lengths to be used. As I mentioned earlier all makes and models that I examined were virtually the same including the lengths from the firewall mounting flange to the center of the "eye". Some of the eye diameters were different though.
One complaint is that the setup tends to growl like a power steering pump that is low on fluid. There is a bleeder on the top that I haven't bled out much yet. Only the "rotated" mustang version has this. It might end up fixing my issue.

Mike.

 

[moparleo]

Also remember to vent the battery to the outside.

 

[Bill]

Sorry to hear about your job Mike. I sat next to a guy on a plane once that was a consultant for companies that were not doing that well. I asked him what the biggest problem with family run companies was and his answer was... "the family". Good luck and congratulations on your new venture. You never know, it may be the best thing that ever happened to you. You read a lot of stories about people losing their job and it was that best thing that ever happened to them.
I have a 73 Challenger that I am restoring. I want to put my battery in the trunk. Did you route your wires in the cab or under the car? I was thinking of sleeving the cables in some steel tubing in the interior to keep them from being under the car where they could get chaffed or hit by something.

 

[74chlngrTT5.9]

Also remember to vent the battery to the outside.

Currently the battery is not in an enclosure. Not sure how to effectively do that with out punching a hole in the top of the fender lol. There is however, 40 year old rubber sealing the deck lid. sort of...

Sorry to hear about your job Mike. I sat next to a guy on a plane once that was a consultant for companies that were not doing that well. I asked him what the biggest problem with family run companies was and his answer was... "the family". Good luck and congratulations on your new venture. You never know, it may be the best thing that ever happened to you. You read a lot of stories about people losing their job and it was that best thing that ever happened to them.
I have a 73 Challenger that I am restoring. I want to put my battery in the trunk. Did you route your wires in the cab or under the car? I was thinking of sleeving the cables in some steel tubing in the interior to keep them from being under the car where they could get chaffed or hit by something.

Oddly enough I was out at lunch a week before I quit I bumped my truck into a lady in a parking lot and it turns out her husband does the same consulting as you mentioned. He has been trying to help also but doesn't fully understand my career. He is focusing on the plastic injection molding companies. My experience is the tooling end of this trade.

I routed the cable under the car. There are many areas that it can be run next to the frame and also through some portions of it to prevent it from being damaged.
Just be sure to use grommets when going through holes. I also wrapped it in a couple of transition places with sheet rubber to prevent it from being abraded. Also used rubber wrapped "eyes" mounted with self drilling/tapping screws.
This will be strictly a street car that I plan on driving it many many miles. Along with the conversion to the late model 5.9, I will also be adding air conditioning to the car.

Stating that: Is there any consensus on this board for a preferred aftermarket system???
I installed the Classic Air brand on my 68 Mustang and ended up having to rework ALL the mounting hardware for the motor. Also had to heat up and reform the shape of several of the venting pieces (ABS plastic) for under the dash. the hoses would not even fit on them let alone stay in place for any duration.

Mike.

 

[74chlngrTT5.9]

Here are a few pictures of the wiring conversion. Yet to be installed is an aftermarket volt gauge. Unfortunately no real pictures on the completed part. Wired in and wrapped a new loom for the main feed to/from alternator. Soldered on all new connectors, cleaned all the existing connections etc...
As noted I have had this car for most of it's life, none of the wiring has been bastardized. A++++++++ bonus.





My unfortunate workbench


Repairing the bezel from a previous installation


One the many changes that will eventually happen to this car is the addition of a full set of gauges to monitor the important things. I have tried many variations of mock up consoles to house them (and of course cup holders for my coffee). Nothing tripped my trigger.
So that since the existing gauge pack was out It was time to start making it's replacement.
Enjoy

Old one out and will be cleaned up before re-installing. Had to make my own custom screw driver to remove the clock knob.


Mockup


First panel. Got the curve right.


Back panel


Upper surface I used a Dremel mounted cutoff wheel to cut slots that the curved face plate piloted into and then welded them together. My aluminum welding skills are "work in progress". Did not want to add too much heat and damage the front of the plate.



The seam between the front and top plate actually came out better than I expected.


Bottom plate is held together with these tabs welded on the back sides.


Again the welding is less than stellar but NO burn through.





Various stages of mounting installation. As the build suggests, this all mounts using the existing screw hole locations.
I have yet to complete the left side piece that houses the lights and wiper control switches.
Overall happy with how this turned out. Nothing on this is straight and none of the bends are 90 degrees.
Installation of this will be further down the road. Built it now only because everything was already opened up. Factory light bar will hide the opening shown.





Car is now reassembled as it was so it can be driven.
After all it is summer.

Mike,

 

[Ray]

Looks good so far.

 

[a68postcar]

rock on.....looks good.

 

[74chlngrTT5.9]

Many moons ago before you could just go out and buy them, I started my own wheel widening project. Machined out the center section of some Oldsmobile 15" rims, then split the outer ring in half. Their center section ID is the same as the Mopar 14" rallys.
I offset the split on the outer rings as far in bound as much as possible for the outer halves and as far out as much as possible for the inner pieces. Basically it took 4 rims to create the 2 rings + the original Rally center section. It ended up being more of a pain than I anticipated so they ended up getting tossed aside.
That said, I have been working on them again and now finally have a working set. they ended up being 8.5 inches wide (9"OAL) Eventually when income makes it back into my life I will have them painted and mounted. The current rear rims will become the fronts. They received the same center section swap but were left the stock 7" wide (15" x 7").

Central weld seam.


Had junk tire mounted to enable testing for leaks.
Looks odd without a hub.
One of them had only a single small leak. Released the pressure and touched it up again with some heat and no more leak. Inside where the tire covers, the weld was left but the center portion had to be ground smooth for the hub to press in.


"Borrowed" some toe clamps from work (guess they won't be getting them back now) and made a plate fixture to draw the centers in. This was a complete PITA to keep them straight so the wheel will run true. they run true within .020 in. TIR. Probably closer than factory originals.




Purchased and mounted one 275-60-15 tire to confirm the offset was correct.
.

Mike.

 

[a68postcar]

i would like to see a finished wheel. i love the deep rallys

 

[moparleo]

Also FYI 15x7 Chevy Blazer wheels also have correct inside diameter for 14" ralleys . That is how I made my 15" ralleys.