Edelbrock heads on ~stock '74 340..Worth it?

[TeeScott]

All, I still have the 73 Ralleye 340 challenger I have mentioned in several posts over the past year or so. I received no history/details about the car from the PO. Quick summary of what I think I know:
--Nearly stock '73 Ralleye optioned 340 car (92,500Mi)
--original engine(Engine block #s: 2780930-340-6 & VIN: JH23HB576882) w 727 trans & 8-3/4 sure-grip Diff.
--Currently has some beat up long tube 1-5/8" headers with a full 2-1/8"O.D. exhaust with ~stock type mufflers.
--Has Stock heads (some topside casting#s: 34189 maybe 349891) that don't look like they've ever been pulled.
--LD4B Edel intake and a Edel 600CFM carb
--Stock type ignition w new stock type distributor & orange Ignition Module fm Mancini Racing.
--Car idles pretty smooth (might be a slightly over stock size cam, but barely discernible at idle if it's been changed), drives well, runs smooth, stays cool, and pulls pretty well. Plugs all run medium tan colored.

So,...Next project is to replace the Badly leaking original Steering box(w an OEM style replacement) and upgrade the exhaust. I plan to use TTI's 1-5/8" shorty headers for ease of install/clearance/etc.. and will likely use their full 2-1/2" exhaust system that pairs with them. IS IT WORTH MY $$, to upgrade the heads to a set of Edel. performers when I install the exhaust while leaving everything else as it is? Should I anticipate any type of clearance issues btwn the original pistons and the Edel heads? (Might also consider going with an Edel Performer Intake but I kind of like the nostalgic look of the LD4B-though I believe it flows less). I am NOT worried about whether the car is a 14 second car or a high 13 second car, etc... but A little more power than what I currently have would be nice...

THX-Scott

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

All, I still have the 73 Ralleye 340 challenger I have mentioned in several posts over the past year or so. I received no history/details about the car from the PO. Quick summary of what I think I know:
--Nearly stock '73 Ralleye optioned 340 car (92,500Mi)
--original engine(Engine block #s: 2780930-340-6 & VIN: JH23HB576882) w 727 trans & 8-3/4 sure-grip Diff.
--Currently has some beat up long tube 1-5/8" headers with a full 2-1/8"O.D. exhaust with ~stock type mufflers.
--Has Stock heads (some topside casting#s: 34189 maybe 349891) that don't look like they've ever been pulled.
--LD4B Edel intake and a Edel 600CFM carb
--Stock type ignition w new stock type distributor & orange Ignition Module fm Mancini Racing.
--Car idles pretty smooth (might be a slightly over stock size cam, but barely discernible at idle if it's been changed), drives well, runs smooth, stays cool, and pulls pretty well. Plugs all run medium tan colored.

So,...Next project is to replace the Badly leaking original Steering box(w an OEM style replacement) and upgrade the exhaust. I plan to use TTI's 1-5/8" shorty headers for ease of install/clearance/etc.. and will likely use their full 2-1/2" exhaust system that pairs with them. IS IT WORTH MY $$, to upgrade the heads to a set of Edel. performers when I install the exhaust while leaving everything else as it is? Should I anticipate any type of clearance issues btwn the original pistons and the Edel heads? (Might also consider going with an Edel Performer Intake but I kind of like the nostalgic look of the LD4B-though I believe it flows less). I am NOT worried about whether the car is a 14 second car or a high 13 second car, etc... but A little more power than what I currently have would be nice...

THX-Scott

It really come down to how much you want to spend on the project, and how much work you want to do. If it was my project, I would pull the engine and give it a refresh. The gaskets on that engine are old and likely leaking. The timing gear set is also likely in need of replacing due to age. In your case, the Edelbrock heads will flow better but unless you change the cam you probably won't see a lot of difference. You should not have any issues with piston clearance either unless you change the valvetrain and/or pistons. The LD4B was a decent intake and for your application it would not be worth going to a Performer.

 

[Xcudame]

If going to aluminum heads, I'd go with a pair of Speed masters and spend the money saved on them (compared to the Edelbrocks) and have a competent machine shop take them apart and fix any issues. Of course you can do the same with you're iron heads! Definitely time to consider a complete rebuild.

 

[Xcudame]

Speedmaster cylinder head link:

Mopar Chrysler SB 318 360 170cc 65cc Hydraulic Flat Assembled Cylinder Heads

SpecsBrand:SpeedmasterPart Number:PCE281.2146Part Type:Cylinder HeadsCylinder Head Style:AssembledCylinder Head Material:Aluminum Cylinder Head Finish:NaturalCombustion Chamber Volume (cc): 65 ccCNC-Machined Combustion Chamber:NoIntake Runner Volume (cc):170 ccExhaust Runner Volume (cc):n/a...

www.speedmaster79.com

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

If going to aluminum heads, I'd go with a pair of Speed masters and spend the money saved on them (compared to the Edelbrocks) and have a competent machine shop take them apart and fix any issues. Of course you can do the same with you're iron heads! Definitely time to consider a complete rebuild.

I went all out and put Trickflow 240's on my engine. Hey, if you're gonna do it, then do it!!!

 

[Xcudame]

I went all out and put Trickflow 240's on my engine. Hey, if you're gonna do it, then do it!!!

True, but he stated he wanted to keep it mild.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Edelbrock quality is not good , , low quality alum , pourous casting , core shift etc , I would use a better brand

 

[TeeScott]

Gents, As usual, your support and recommendations are "pure gold" to me as a "somewhat' mechanically proficient car guy (I've pulled a few engines, changed transmissions and driveshafts, numerous radiators & accessories, leaf springs, shocks, etc... Mostly stuff I can do in my garage with a set of jack stands). And though i thoroughly enjoy some troubleshooting and doing the work on my cars, my back & shoulders, etc... are starting to see great value in employing the help of a "good" local shop.

MY GOALS: to refresh the entire car to a level so that I am comfortable driving to car show/events within a few hours of my house. Not really worried about retaining 100% OEM type equipment & will make upgrades where they make sense to improve safety/reliability/efficiency/fun. (I can currently stab the long pedal and the car will lay 2 nice 15+' black marks w no type of cheating power breaking. Expect it would do more, but I really haven't been pushing the car too hard as I work through issues.)

So,
1) the advice about the Speedmaster heads is great, (I've seen them mentioned on various posts and reviewed the specs. For the $400+ price diff. btwn a set of Edels, I am sold.)
2)The advice about pulling the engine for a refresh is also solid.
--The old oil pan is pretty rusted and "weeps " a little around the full circumference.
--The water pump works fine, but looks like it might be original (or at least decades old)
--Hadn't thought about the double roller timing gears/chain since it operates very quiet, but since it is likely original, I'll renew it all if we pull the engine later this fall.

Will provide some feedback down the road as I make progress later this Fall/Winter.
-Scott

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

Gents, As usual, your support and recommendations are "pure gold" to me as a "somewhat' mechanically proficient car guy (I've pulled a few engines, changed transmissions and driveshafts, numerous radiators & accessories, leaf springs, shocks, etc... Mostly stuff I can do in my garage with a set of jack stands). And though i thoroughly enjoy some troubleshooting and doing the work on my cars, my back & shoulders, etc... are starting to see great value in employing the help of a "good" local shop.

MY GOALS: to refresh the entire car to a level so that I am comfortable driving to car show/events within a few hours of my house. Not really worried about retaining 100% OEM type equipment & will make upgrades where they make sense to improve safety/reliability/efficiency/fun. (I can currently stab the long pedal and the car will lay 2 nice 15+' black marks w no type of cheating power breaking. Expect it would do more, but I really haven't been pushing the car too hard as I work through issues.)

So,
1) the advice about the Speedmaster heads is great, (I've seen them mentioned on various posts and reviewed the specs. For the $400+ price diff. btwn a set of Edels, I am sold.)
2)The advice about pulling the engine for a refresh is also solid.
--The old oil pan is pretty rusted and "weeps " a little around the full circumference.
--The water pump works fine, but looks like it might be original (or at least decades old)
--Hadn't thought about the double roller timing gears/chain since it operates very quiet, but since it is likely original, I'll renew it all if we pull the engine later this fall.

Will provide some feedback down the road as I make progress later this Fall/Winter.
-Scott

The goal of a very dependable car is what we all want, for sure. As for water pumps, I use the FlowKooler high flow pump with a high flow thermostat. That combination has worked well for me. While you're looking your car over be sure to inspect the radiator for leaks or when looking down into the radiator to see if the core tubes are clean. If the radiator is older it may need to be pulled and cleaned out by a radiator shop. That's the thing about our older cars; by this time there has been a lot of fingers in the pie! Who knows what folks have done (or not done) that needs to be checked.

If the engine is running well, you could certainly pull & clean the pan/pickup tube and replace the pan gaskets to fix your leak. Replacing the timing chain would also have you replace the timing cover gasket too. After you swap the heads you'll be replacing the head & intake gaskets... which would effectively reseal your engine!

Have fun!

 

[mrmopar340]

Put a chain tensioner in there when you put the timing chain in. From what I know it will fit under the timing cover. I have one in my car. Block is a 71 340 and it fit perfectly under the cover without any modifications.

For Small Block Mopar Timing Chain Tensioner Plymouth Dodge 318 340 360 Dodge SB | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for For Small Block Mopar Timing Chain Tensioner Plymouth Dodge 318 340 360 Dodge SB at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Here is the whole kit with timing chain set.

Small Block Mopar Roller Timing Chain set w/Tensioner Plymouth Dodge 318 340 360 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Small Block Mopar Roller Timing Chain set w/Tensioner Plymouth Dodge 318 340 360 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Xcudame]

Great suggestion Mrmopar340! The chain tensioner for a 3.9l magnum V6 is exactly the same and sometimes you can pick those up very cheap.

1995 DODGE DAKOTA 3.9L V6 Timing Chain Tensioner | Shop Now at RockAuto

Engine Parts and More for Your 1995 DODGE DAKOTA at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

 

[mrmopar340]

Great suggestion Mrmopar340! The chain tensioner for a 3.9l magnum V6 is exactly the same and sometimes you can pick those up very cheap.

1995 DODGE DAKOTA 3.9L V6 Timing Chain Tensioner | Shop Now at RockAuto

Engine Parts and More for Your 1995 DODGE DAKOTA at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

I used a Cloyes Billet double roller and that tensioner. Has worked like a charm. Good job on better price. I see you are as frugal as I am.

 

[TIMINATOR]

The LD4B will run rings around a performer intake. The as cast Speedmaster heads will out flow performer RPM heads.
Forget the shorty headers, go with long tube headers, the torque/HP difference is a bunch, and small block fitment/clearance is not an issue at all. The short stroke 340 really benefits from the long tube headers torque gain. A stock 340 cam has a higher lift and longer duration than a stock 318 or 360 cam, so it has an inconsistent, but not lopey idle.
When you freshen the engine, use a machineshop that will BHJ squaredeck the block after it is linehoned. Mopars are notorious for having all 4 corners of the deck being of a different height! Many will have a half point of compression different from the tallest to shortest corners!
This allows more timing for more efficiency and helps the cylinder to cylinder balance.
You not only gain HP, but the gas mileage will also increase and will easily pay for the difference in cost. Also make sure the shop will do a multi stone hone with the Sunnen stones and finish brushes.
Balancing is also on the list of musts, again as Mopars aren't balanced very closely from the factory. New modern pistons and rings are lighter and more efficient, don't use the cheaper old factory replacement heavier type.
Again, all of this gains more HP and fuel mileage and is totally worth the cash. Expect to pay about $1000.00 more for all of this, but the HP and fuel mileage are forever.
Also Comp Cams have quicker ramp rates and are the most precision cams out there. You gain more HP per degree of duration, and a broader power band too.
Modern engines are built and machined like this, allowing greater efficiency and HP.
I know you aren't building a racecar, but by the time you replace the pistons, rings, bearings, and pay for balancing and rod resizing, I usually recommend buying a stroker crank rather than spending around $175.00 to have the stock 50+ year old crank ground by someone that will do a nice job.
This does seem to snowball cost wise, but you will have an engine that is brick reliable, and will put a smile on your face that you won't believe!
I had my first engine rebuilt in 1968 and have made every mistake you can think of!
The first 3 engines I had done, I kept going back into for"just a bit more..." and each time it ended up costing about 50% more than just doing it that way to begin with.
Put all the cash you have, inside the motor, once. Then add the "bolt ons" later.
I have been in the HP engine machining/ building business since the early 1980s, and I have never had anyone ever tell me they wished they had less H.P!
Then again, you could be the first!
JMHO,
TIMINATOR

 

[sir_veza]

All, I still have the 73 Ralleye 340 challenger I have mentioned in several posts over the past year or so. I received no history/details about the car from the PO. Quick summary of what I think I know:
--Nearly stock '73 Ralleye optioned 340 car (92,500Mi)
--original engine(Engine block #s: 2780930-340-6 & VIN: JH23HB576882) w 727 trans & 8-3/4 sure-grip Diff.
--Currently has some beat up long tube 1-5/8" headers with a full 2-1/8"O.D. exhaust with ~stock type mufflers.
--Has Stock heads (some topside casting#s: 34189 maybe 349891) that don't look like they've ever been pulled.
--LD4B Edel intake and a Edel 600CFM carb
--Stock type ignition w new stock type distributor & orange Ignition Module fm Mancini Racing.
--Car idles pretty smooth (might be a slightly over stock size cam, but barely discernible at idle if it's been changed), drives well, runs smooth, stays cool, and pulls pretty well. Plugs all run medium tan colored.

So,...Next project is to replace the Badly leaking original Steering box(w an OEM style replacement) and upgrade the exhaust. I plan to use TTI's 1-5/8" shorty headers for ease of install/clearance/etc.. and will likely use their full 2-1/2" exhaust system that pairs with them. IS IT WORTH MY $$, to upgrade the heads to a set of Edel. performers when I install the exhaust while leaving everything else as it is? Should I anticipate any type of clearance issues btwn the original pistons and the Edel heads? (Might also consider going with an Edel Performer Intake but I kind of like the nostalgic look of the LD4B-though I believe it flows less). I am NOT worried about whether the car is a 14 second car or a high 13 second car, etc... but A little more power than what I currently have would be nice...

THX-Scott

I'm certainly no expert but here's my two cents...
- Regarding your Saginaw PS Box. Powercraft (7910) is an excellent repair kit. Has everything you need inside.
- Edelbrock carburetors have never been much good. Holley is much better.
- Would strongly suggest to keep as much of the motor stock as possible. Perhaps try sourcing pre 1971 exhaust manifolds?
- I've seen first hand the poor quality of Speedmaster (Chinese Made) & Edelbrock (Still U.S.) Unfortunately these brands both seem to be catering toward the Online Retailers, (Quantity vs Quality). (Competing on price is always a Race to the Bottom).
- Finally if you're getting somebody to build your motor MAKE DOUBLE SURE THEY AT LEAST BENCH RUN BEFORE SHIPPING! (Stupid me - I only assumed it would be done). Recently paid a guy Mega Bucks to build me a 408 Stroker that seems to run really well but leaks like crazy...then blames me for complaining!!
Best of luck.

 

[TIMINATOR]

Speedmaster has steadily been raising the quality of their parts for years. They admittly had some issues 15 or 20 years ago, but none lately with the parts I sold before retiring. Their heads and manifold have had zero issues in my experience for the last 20 years or so. Since we have been direct with ALL of the domestic casting mfgrs. for over 40 years, I can tell you we have had more issues with "domestic" brands. As much as it pains me to admit!
I currently have a pair of Performer RPM heads in here with less than 5k street miles, on a 440 with cast iron manifolds (2 1/4" outlets) an old Torker intake, a 750 vacuum Holley and 2500 stall, that dropped a valve driving on the freeway. I recommended he replace them with Speedmaster heads. He replied: "Those are junk!)
I recommended he look at his own eddys with 5000 miles on them before talking any more.
I use Speedmaster castings, but dress them with applicable parts of my choosing.

 

[TIMINATOR]

Oops! That's a turbo Buick head...

 

[TIMINATOR]

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances!
TIMINATOR

 

[Xcudame]

That's why I suggested going with the Speedmaster heads and having a good machinist take them apart and go over them and fix any flaws. May not need much! The Edelbrock heads will definitely need work plus they cost more with no additional output gain.

I know 440 Stealth heads had some issues early on but they listened to people's complaints and fixed the issues. They want your Mopar Big Block business! I think Edelbrock might be to big to care much! Especially the low volume of Mopar heads they sale compared to GM and Ford.

 

[sir_veza]

Speedmaster has steadily been raising the quality of their parts for years. They admittly had some issues 15 or 20 years ago, but none lately with the parts I sold before retiring. Their heads and manifold have had zero issues in my experience for the last 20 years or so. Since we have been direct with ALL of the domestic casting mfgrs. for over 40 years, I can tell you we have had more issues with "domestic" brands. As much as it pains me to admit!
I currently have a pair of Performer RPM heads in here with less than 5k street miles, on a 440 with cast iron manifolds (2 1/4" outlets) an old Torker intake, a 750 vacuum Holley and 2500 stall, that dropped a valve driving on the freeway. I recommended he replace them with Speedmaster heads. He replied: "Those are junk!)
I recommended he look at his own eddys with 5000 miles on them before talking any more.
I use Speedmaster castings, but dress them with applicable parts of my choosing.

View attachment 129728

Am I correct you are an Engine Builder? Did Edelbrock honor your warranty??
In my situation there's only a few hundred miles on the motor. Not sure whether it's a parts issue or poor workmanship from the builder...or both.

 

[Xcudame]

Sir-veza, that's a good question. TIMINATOR? I'm guessing Edelbrock weaseled out of it!

Sir-veza, always, and I mean always, thoroughly check out everything you buy before you bolt it on your car unless you really know and trust the person who made/machined/assembled it and that person is willing to stand by their product. We're kinda lucky being Mopar nuts because we're typically much smarter than the average person!