New 512 build planning

[rickseeman]

This is an interesting 2 minute video from Melling showing the oil flow through various main bearing clearances. You can't believe how tight the 1970 FSM says to run the main and rod clearance on a 440. And the Mopar B/RB manual says max allowable before overhaul just happens to be the minimum people say for a new stroker build.

 

[Spyder]

In that video, which number/flow would be preferred? Is 4 flowing enough that you're going to lose pressure and cause problems?

 

[rickseeman]

Yes .004" will cause you to lose oil pressure because of your lack of volume. Use your old HV pump. A new stock 440 is really tight like .0015". But you don't have a new stock 440. Everybody that builds a stroker wants .0025" to .0035". This means there is going to be a lot more oil flowing through your engine. 440 Source sells a Hemi pan and a 3/8" pickup. I won't even start a conversation about going to a 1/2" Hemi pickup. Everybody fights me on that. Do you realize you are going to have nearly as much horsepower as a 1970 426 Hemi Pro Stocker? Every single one of those guys used a dual line Milodon oil system and a 10 qt pan.

 

[Spyder]

All the parts are here and the block is home from the machine shop! I'm off work tomorrow and Saturday and, in between some other good weather home projects I've got to get done I'll be working on this. Pulled the 440 out of the car last weekend and started sanding the engine bay, as I want to paint it body color instead of black before putting the new one in. I had originally wanted to get this thing back on the road by the end of the month but unless everything goes really perfectly I don't think it'll happen.

I'll probably drop in here for a lot of questions in the next few weeks, already been doing tons of reading and youtube watching since this is the first one I've built from the ground up other than lawnmower engines.

 

[Xcudame]

Definitely need to 6 quart oil pan! And remember with the filter, that's 7 quarts! The stock oil pan (402) is really what you'd call a 4 quart pan so you can see the comparison! The main thing with oil pressure is you have at least 10 psi at idle and it goes up at least about 10 psi for every 1000 rpm. The good thing is the 512 engine will have so much torque, you won't want to go over 4500 rpm on the street!!

 

[Spyder]

Yep! That's kind of the plan for it, low rpm low maintenance. 6 quart pan and Melling HV pump are on the shop floor in boxes next to the rest of the parts. I'll take lots of pics along the way, as much to remind myself where I'm at as to show off, and will stick some up here for ridicule and advise.

 

[Spyder]

And frustrations begin...

Mocking up the main caps planning on putting a bunch of it together today and there's 4 sets of studs, and 2 bolts. That doesn't seem right...
All the arp packages I see are one or the other, not 2 bolts and 8 studs, don't know why the hell they'd come that way.

Went back to look at machine shop paperwork and it says it was line honed, and the #3 was in with bolts when I picked it up, so I ASSume that's the setup he used to hold it in place?

 

[Mr Cuda]

I know nothing about building a 512.
But I'm fixing the hood for someone who built one.

 

[Xcudame]

It it was line honed with the bolts on the #3 Main cap (which is where your thrust bearing goes) and studs on the other four main caps, you'll be fine! Some guys like the bolts instead of studs on the thrust bearing cap (#3). You're likely never see over 5000rpm or much less the occasional 6000rpm unless you're drag racing it! The line hone is a very good thing! Especially with studs! The 512 is going to have tons of torque!

 

[Spyder]

<----- Dummy. I found the studs. If they were a snake they woulda bit me. Still missing the two nuts that should go with them, but now I'm sure they're on the workbench...somewhere.

I rolled it outside into the sunshine and did another deep clean, taped it all off, and painted it. Take advantage of the first day of good weather of the year.

 

[Spyder]

Studs are installed now, going to look for the nuts again and hope they magically appear, and maybe get the crank installed tonight.

Spent a little extra time drying out all the bolt holes so I don't have water trying to expand in them. Long qtip and a heat gun makes quick work of the moisture.

 

[rickseeman]

The nuts for #5 will probably look different to clear the retainer.

 

[Spyder]

I cant find the stupid things anywhere, and can't tell by looking at ARP stuff if these are the right nuts to buy to replace the missing ones or not. They should be 12pt to clear the retainer, but I can't seem to find anywhere that tells what the thread is.

ARP 300-8324 ARP 12-Point Nuts | Summit Racing

?

I need to order head gaskets and a few small things tomorrow anyway so may as well add these in if I can figure out they're the right dang ones.

Crank is in and all the caps are in place and ready to be torqued, once I get these two nuts. Rear main is ready to go in, initial check on endplay with main nuts just hand snugged up is .006 so that's promising. I may get this thing on the road yet...

 

[Spyder]

12pt nuts are on their way. Got the crank in and everything hand snugged up otherwise. Had to clearance the two studs closest to the rear main retainer so the oil pan would fit which is apparently a common problem with the ARP kit. End play measures at .005 right now with the thrust bearing cap at 30 lbs.
Left the core plugs out when I painted it because I like the contrast of the shiny brass in the engine.
One of the wrist pins had a giant gouge inside of it so a new one of those should be here today or tomorrow. Once I get the 12pt nuts, I'll torque everything down and get the pistons in, then on to the cam.

I may make my on the road by the end of the month goal yet! Mostly going to be dependent on headers at this point I think, if they get shipped in time or not.

Have not decided on a carb yet either. The new 650 AVS2 I've got on the 440 isn't big enough so I need to figure out what to buy for the new engine.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but so far it's going pretty smooth, putting in an hour of wrenching on lunch break or in the evenings when I Can find time.

 

[Xcudame]

I would say you need at the very least a 850 CFM Thermoquad. Or a 950 CFM Holley, although I really don't care for leaky Holley's. But to each his own.

 

[Spyder]

Doing the size x rpm / 3456 gets me to an 800, which I'd prefer to stick with the AVS2 since it's what I know, but... I'd rather do it right than twice so I'll do some reading and maybe have to learn a new one to tune.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

850 Proform or 950 if it was mine

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

12pt nuts are on their way. Got the crank in and everything hand snugged up otherwise. Had to clearance the two studs closest to the rear main retainer so the oil pan would fit which is apparently a common problem with the ARP kit. End play measures at .005 right now with the thrust bearing cap at 30 lbs.
Left the core plugs out when I painted it because I like the contrast of the shiny brass in the engine.
One of the wrist pins had a giant gouge inside of it so a new one of those should be here today or tomorrow. Once I get the 12pt nuts, I'll torque everything down and get the pistons in, then on to the cam.

I may make my on the road by the end of the month goal yet! Mostly going to be dependent on headers at this point I think, if they get shipped in time or not.

Have not decided on a carb yet either. The new 650 AVS2 I've got on the 440 isn't big enough so I need to figure out what to buy for the new engine.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but so far it's going pretty smooth, putting in an hour of wrenching on lunch break or in the evenings when I Can find time.

I've used both the 650 & 800 AVS2 carbs and they work very well on my 440. Used the 650 to initially start & break in the fresh engine because it was already set up & proven. I've since moved to the Edelbrock VRS 750. That carb has the annular boosters on BOTH primary & secondary sides. The carb is not cheap, but I have no regrets about buying it. I've been chasing some issues with my car so have not done any hard runs so can't speak to that, but for just driving around the response is excellent right out of the box. In time I will likely do some tuning but so far I'm impressed with how well it runs.

 

[Xcudame]

I still love the Thermoquad and Holley Street Dominator combo. Got to love the fugly carb and intake that actually works pretty darn well!

 

[Spyder]

I got it mostly together yesterday, except for one hole. This ugly wrist pin came in the kit and I'm not going to use it. I called and sent a photo and they shipped me a new one out Monday, but it still shows sitting at their local post office soooo.... putting me behind another week.