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Exhaust thoughts

booyaballer

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My 70 Challenger has a 360 crate engine with apparent BB headers and H pipe exhaust (unknown brands). As you can see the ground clearance is terrible which wasn't helped by the Hotchkis TVS front and rear kit that I installed. I have also converted it from a 727 tranny to SST's 5 Speed Tremec. I am planning on getting the TTI 1-5/8 x 1-3/4 small block headers #340BE because it sounds like they will fit w/ full starter and no other issues (fingers crossed).

Because by now I've learned that something always seems to come up, I'm reaching out to see what issues you recommend I anticipate or what else I should consider doing while they are out. Also, should the new headers fit and line up with the H pipe? thanks for any feed back.

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NoCar340

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You should pick up a bit of ground clearance with the TTi headers, although I don't know how much on an E-body. Your collector flanges will probably be the lowest point, certainly higher than your current primary tubes. I worry a lot more about the 10-quart oil pan on my Valiant than I do about the headers... for obvious reasons:

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In terms of fitting your existing exhaust, they likely won't bolt straight up to what's there. Again, the car I've got them on is an A-body, but in my experience most header manufacturers don't worry about getting the collectors aligned with the exhaust clearance in the factory crossmember. They point the collectors straight back. TTi does worry about it, and though it's not really evident in the pictures below, the TTi collectors point toward the exhaust clearance. As a result, they don't point straight back--they point slightly toward the center of the car. I'm guessing your exhaust flanges will be at the wrong angle--and probably too far apart--to bolt straight to the new headers. It shouldn't require a major rework, but there will be some diddling involved.

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Chryco Psycho

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I have never figured out why most small block headers drop below the steering link , they are terrible for ground clearance .
You will gain a lot using TTI or Dougs as they stay above the center link as they should .
 

craigbred

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I recently installed 2" TTI headers, and a 3" exhaust on a 440/505. The flanges were the lowest point. To keep everything "up" as much as I could, I put a spacer between the trans mount and the trans to raise the back of the trans about 3/16"and I raised the shift linkage around some too, per TTI's instructions (727 auto). I could not raise the front of the motor any because I was already close to the hood with the carb/air cleaner.
A trick that worked really good was to "roll" the first elbow from the collection up a bit. That got the tubes higher next to the drive shaft early on. If you look close on the installed photo, on the tube on the drivers side, you can see it rolled up a bit. As a side note, this job was a major pain to build. It took my brother-in-law and me 2 days.
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douglas17

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71 Barracuda ,340 six barrel, auto trans. Doug,s headers and 2 1/2 magna flow exhaust.
engine installed from top, lots of room and ground clearance is excellent as seen in second photo .

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craigbred

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Hi Psycho,
It's a little quieter than before, which is what I was hoping for.
My old 2 1/2" system had Flow Master Supper 44s, and this 3" has the 14" Magnaflows. I wanted to go with the 18" Magnaflows, but I didn't think they would fit next to the gas tank, and surely not under the floor.
So, in my comparison, the 3", 14" MagnaFlows are a little quieter than the 2 1/2" Flow Master Supper 44.
With the [email protected] cam, she sounds pretty good, and not over loud.
 

booyaballer

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Thanks for the feedback. i looked at Dougs headers and although they seem cheaper than TTI, it'll be necessary to change to a smaller starter which i'm trying to avoid. Does TTi have a complete headers to tailpipe exhaust system or will have I have to mix with magna's or equivalent?
 

Danny Boy

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Agree with 6packFI

Had Hedman Hedders on my 70 318 Challenger back in 70's. Ill fitting and not pleasant

I was not educated on "unintended consequences" associated with headers such as low ground clearance, leaks, heated interior, etc...

Not fun - swore never to put headers in my cars and removed after 2-3 years

In all fairness, I'm sure current headers fit much better....

Like my 70 factory 340 cast iron exhaust manifolds
 

booyaballer

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I'm going to buy the TTI headers for now and hopefully find a simple way to adapt my current H pipe since i think the system is in good condition.

When I installed the Tremec 5 speed, i unbolted the headers and exhaust pipe at the collector and I noticed they were under quite a bit of tension since the motor's angle changed. I imagine this is not a good thing or is it normal?

Thanks.
 

NoCar340

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I would agree with your imagination that the tension in the exhaust system is not good. Somewhere in that system is an area that's absorbing the brunt of the vibration in the exhaust system. That area will work-harden and will eventually crack, just like when you keep bending a paper clip at the same point.
The manufacturers mitigate vibration stresses with rubber-isolated hangers, flexible exhaust sections, ball/socket joints, and/or slip fits between pipes. That's why you rarely, if ever, see a factory exhaust system that's fully welded from manifold to tip. There's always at least one slip fit in there somewhere, usually at the mufflers. These days a braided-steel flex section is fairly common, especially in transverse-engine applications where the main vibration source (the engine) is at a right angle to the exhaust system.
Obviously, hundreds if not thousands of shops have been fully welding systems for years and never had an issue with doing so. Ultimately I think it's more a personal choice than a real durability concern, especially on limited-use cars like ours. Ain't no shame in clamps; they've worked well for 100+ years.
But if your system is fully welded, you have no flexible point (like a slip fit) where the pipes can be wrangled or manipulated in relation to each other to improve the fit. If the angle of the engine/trans changed, then you put the exhaust under strain. That will lead to a crack eventually.
When you massage your H-pipe to fit the new headers, make sure it's an easy fit to the new headers while firmly affixed to the rest of the exhaust. There should be no struggles, stretching, or forcing anything into place to finish the job. It should just lift into place and align, with the collector bolts slipping into place easily. If it doesn't, find the bind or pinch and correct it... that might require a cut. Once everything is bolted up to your satisfaction, welding it solid is your option.
When I did exhaust on my beater A-body this summer, I made the X-pipe solid almost to the mufflers. I used band clamps ("this one time, at band clamp...") to connect to the mufflers, and regular U-bolt clamps after the mufflers. I did that mostly to enable replacing the mufflers if I didn't like them, but if something else changes up front I still have some ability to jockey things between the headers and tailpipes and get everything realigned.
I also used band clamps after the axle at the resonators--yes, I managed to squeeze actual resonators into an A-body--but the tailpipe turndowns are welded directly to the resonators.
I had intended to use ball/socket joints designed for header collectors, but the way the TTi's flanges are welded that arrangement simply won't work. I went the old-fashioned route insteat. I did use Percy's aluminum collector gaskets, though.
So far, so good... and quiet, like a proper sleeper should be.
 

Drivun

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Booyaballer, don’t order the full length TTI’s with your set up!

I run a 5.9 Magnum stroker with a SST tko600 and full hotchkis. To get the TKO in, the engine /tranny are mounted at too steep an angle for the long tubes. Using all the tranny spacers to take the trans up as high as I could, I found the collector flanges had only 2 1/2“ ground clearance. The mid pipes dropped even lower before moving up to the floor.

I called TTI and they confirmed that there System is set up for a normal engine mounting angle. since I was leaving for power tour shortly, I had local muffler shop angle cit the collector ends to turn upwards sooner, but it didn’t get me much.

The solution came with using TTI shorties connected to the same TTI down flow exhaust system I ran with the long tubes.
Lost a little power but speed bumps aren’t a problem anymore despite my low ride height.

My original post seeking help can be found in the exhaust system section about 2 years ago. Good luck!
 

Drivun

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And further, I want to be clear I was very happy with TTIs products and service. It’s unfortunate that SST doesn’t warn you about longtubes and engine angles.
 
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