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Looking for some 318 upgrade help

Fuel and Air Systems

  1. Plymouth71

    Plymouth71 Member

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    I have a 1971 Plymouth Satellite with the factory 318. I have received a Holley 650 ultra double pumper part number 76650 BL which if I can make it work reliably I would like to use on my setup. I also have a four barrel intake from what I believe is a police interceptor 360 part number 4100340.

    I need to figure out if I can make this combination work. The carb is a square bore and the intake is a spread bore I've heard that you can get an adapter. I also have a skip White HEI distributor with included coil part number JM 6513 BK. I was trying to install it with my factory air filter, but there is contact and I would need to cut the air cleaner assembly, with MagnaFlow mufflers. I was thinking of getting a mild cam again not sure what I should look at. I also have a Rochester quadrajet that came with the intake. It had been used on a 318 out of a 68 satellite, however the engine and intake were not factory. One other thing tl mention is I do have a Mopar Orange box and electronic distributor that came with that engine as well. almost forgot I also have a
    Proform Extruded Aluminum Roller Rocker Arm - 1.5 Ratio. The car sat for a long time but runs good except for smoke on start up which I expect is from the intake valve seats. I am wondering if the newer heads would have hardened seats. The engine that came off of is a 1976 to 1984 318. The Exhaust manifoldsImanifolds are marked 77. I have included pictures of the parts. I have not checked the camshaft information on that engine either, not sure if it would be an upgrade or not. It's still in the engine.

    I look forward to your suggestions thank you for your time.

    1596135482796.jpg

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    145766-700238aa499b76313f9c73772376cf26.jpg
     
  2. Cudakiller70

    Cudakiller70 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  3. fasjac

    fasjac Well-Known Member

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    How much power you looking for? Budget? Here’s an inexpensive adapter for the carb. Just depends on what you want the end results to be. A mild voodoo cam would be nice. But, transmission, rear gears etc. need to be thought about. A2D59A76-7AB1-449C-A56A-BAAF149761CA.png
     
  4. 57fury440

    57fury440 Member

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    If you do a cam swap the factory 340 cam always works well in the 318. While you have it apart make sure it still doesn't have the original timing gear with the plastic teeth. I think the double pumper may be too much on the street if you are running a torqueflite.
     
  5. Chryco Psycho

    Chryco Psycho Well-Known Member

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    I aree wit Lunati Voodoo cams , 701 or 702 would work well ,
    I would stay wit Mopar dist & buy a better ECU like te Rev-n-ator
    I always prefer Double pump carbs well tuned & learnin to drive tem you cannot find a better carb , you can use a Eddy RPM intake or an LD 340
    I would look for a set of 87-92 302 castin swirl cylinder jeads , best factory jeads by far
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  6. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Likely that oil is leaking past the valve stem seals and not much is wrong with the seats. These are cheap and not too much of a pita to change.

    I agree with the other recommendations regarding the cam and intake. You can do a lot better than that cast iron spreadbore.
     
  7. moparleo

    moparleo Well-Known Member

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    2 reasons the get later heads, 72 and up have induction hardened valve seats for unleaded fuel. Your guides are worn if you have blue smoke on startup. If it is black smoke on start up, the fuel in the carb is draining down into the intake.
    If you still decide to use the stock heads ( after a valve job and guide replacement) check the intake port size alignment between the 360 intake and cylinder head using a new intake manifold gasket and a scribe to mark the port outline.
    No reason in the world to install the rockers. Absolutely no advantage, just looks at this point.
    Double pumper carb is not really a street carb. Too much fuel very time you push down on the accelerator. Designed really for bigger cams/ breathing hot engine set up, to cover up secondary bogging on standing starts. Stay as close to stock as you can. Remember that the more you modify, the more you Have to modify.
    Save the eye candy (roller rockers etc...) for a better build.
    Sell the carb, HEI style distributor, rockers . This will help pay for the heads and proper carb set-up. Get an Edelbrock AFB or AVS clone carb. Much closer to what the factory out on and no mickey mouse linkages . All bolt on parts. If you decide to take a chance and run the Orange box, make sure to have a back-up in the trunk.
    The following is a quote from the Holley website:

    "The Double Pumper is designed for use on lightweight vehicles with a manual transmission or an automatic transmission with a high stall and low rear end gears. The Double Pumper is available in a gold dichromate or tumble polished shiny finish and features dual accelerator pumps for additional fuel under initial acceleration; mechanical secondaries for great performance; dual feed fuel inlets for constant high volume fuel delivery and a manual choke for easy control of engine warm up."
    E-bodies are not lightweight vehicles like the A-bodies. Is this your set-up and driving style ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
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  8. Chryco Psycho

    Chryco Psycho Well-Known Member

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    Te AFB / AVS carb are also mecanical secondary carbs like a double pumper , te difference is you can decide wen to use te secondaries instead of te carb only allowin you to use 4bbls wen it decides / allows . I will never decide in favor of reduced control ! 2 accelerator pump is totally different from mecanical secondaries !
    Besides you already jave te Carb
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  9. moparleo

    moparleo Well-Known Member

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    The whole purpose of the AVS ( air valve secondary) was to open the secondaries on vacuum demand, not direct mechanical. Opens when it needed it not just when you push the pedal. They do not have a second accelerator pump. That is like not having vacuum advance, only mechanical. OK for WO throttle applications but most people don't drive like that very often. The reason it was only for race cars and not street vehicles.
    Quote from Edelbrock"There is no secondary accelerator pump on the AVS series carburetors because of the air valve door that limits air movement until there is sufficient air velocity on the primary side. The door's spring tension is adjustable by loosening this lock screw. The key is to adjust the tension so the opening rate is imperceptible. If you feel a "hit" by loosening the spring tension, that is actually hesitation and the spring should be tightened slightly."
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  10. moparleo

    moparleo Well-Known Member

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    Get an oil pump priming rod and cordless drill and pump oil through the engine and rotate the crankshaft a quarter turn every 30 seconds or so to get oil every where. Now, pull the spark plugs. Hook up a fully charged battery to the starter and do a compression test. This will tell you about the basic condition of the rings/valves. Very basic but more info than you have without opening up the engine.
    The manifold is a stock 318/360 manifold for 78-82. Nothing HP about it. The AVS ( air valve secondary) does not have a second accelerator pump nor is it mechanical on the secondary side as described in its name A.V.S. . They are very simple to tune and are designed for street use. Mopar used them OE. The double pump Holley is a performance carb for a modified engine set-up. This is basically a stock 318, not really the best setup for this carb. You can make anything fit but you did ask for reliability and I assume that also means good performance i.e. low/no maintenance.
    Any way you go you are going to spend money to make these parts work, how much do you want to spend and what do you expect when you are done ? These are the important questions to answer before you do anything else.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  11. toolmanmike

    toolmanmike Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You'll get as many opinions as there are forums and members.
     
  12. Coupe

    Coupe Active Member

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    I have a 318 I'm my 72 Barracuda. I rebuilt it 20 years ago based on articles from Mopar Muscle, Mopar Action, and Hot Rod magazines. These articles were written before the plethora of aftermarket parts were available. If you'd like I can send you PDF copies of the articles. You may find them helpful even if you do not follow their advice. On YouTube, "Uncle Tony's Garage " can also be helpful.
     
  13. michael bucklew

    michael bucklew Active Member

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  14. michael bucklew

    michael bucklew Active Member

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    any 340 cam will work--also need right valve springs and good lifters--did this first build on 71 challenger
     
  15. 74Scooter

    74Scooter Member

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    True dat. One of the hardest hurdles I've seen people struggle to overcome is resist the temptation to over carb a mild street engine. I've done it myself. Double pumpers are great carbs for the right application but are a whole different breed to tune. I have a 750 ultra and 600 collecting dust in my garage right now. Both shelved in favor of 625 vac secondary carbs.

    My2c.
     
  16. Chryco Psycho

    Chryco Psycho Well-Known Member

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    I really like the Holley 450 CFM 4 bbls , you can get them with mech or vacuum secondary but they sell so few of them they usually cost more than a 600 cfm
     
  17. 74Scooter

    74Scooter Member

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    I really liked the 625 Carter AFB back in the day, could put it on nearly anything and easily get it to run right.

    I put a 625 Holley Demon on my 360 Challenger and I must say I really like it. Slight adjustment to the idle mixture using a vacuum gauge and a few turns on the butterfly spring... bang. Done deal. Good chance I'm leaving some HP on the table I could get with a larger carb... don't care at this point. Not drag racing a 2.76 rear end one legger anyway.

    I tried to get that 750 Ultra pumper dialed in on my 390 Fairlane for years. You mash the throttle and it delivers fuel right now...lol. Pump cams.. 4 corner adjustment... jets and squirters... Oh my! You know the drill. Could be a me thing.. but I've decided to stick with vac secondary carbs on automatics from now on.

    My2c.
     
  18. Chryco Psycho

    Chryco Psycho Well-Known Member

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    We all have preferences , I only own manual trans cars ever , I walk away from any deal if the car has an Auto , I also only use Double pump , manual secondary carbs or EFI
     
  19. 74Scooter

    74Scooter Member

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    I hear ya.. but I've got a bum back which makes another manual transmission a non starter.