Replacing Lifters on 73 318

[Fordication]

Hey guys. I was wanting to replace my lifters and I think I got a bit mixed up. I said I was going to pull my heads to get to them and several people told me that I do not have to pull the heads. Then some told me I only need to pull the intake. I am planning on doing it this weekend and before I start pulling anything, do I pull the intake to access the lifters or am I missing something.

 

[Mr Cuda]

But first, why are you replacing the lifters?
Are they ticking?
Is the lifter collapsed? A high miles engine could have valve seat wear that took away operating travel range.
Is the pushrod loose when lifter is on the cam base circle?
Lifter face wear means the cam is worn out. This adds to the pushrod clearance.
Timing chain is most likely worn or "stretched" too.
But yes, pull the intake for easy access to inspect.
Now every once in a while, a lifter can get stuck down. The plunger-check valve can be cleaned, and put back in, IF cam and lifter faces are good.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

With a very good magnet I have been able to replace lifters without pulling the intake , just fishing them out through the access between ports , if the lifters are old varnish may make this difficult or impossible but worth a try .

 

[Mr Cuda]

For pulling a lifter through the head, I have a KD lifter tool. Expandable barbs to catch the snap ring groove.

 

[Fordication]

But first, why are you replacing the lifters?
Are they ticking?
Is the lifter collapsed? A high miles engine could have valve seat wear that took away operating travel range.
Is the pushrod loose when lifter is on the cam base circle?
Lifter face wear means the cam is worn out. This adds to the pushrod clearance.
Timing chain is most likely worn or "stretched" too.
But yes, pull the intake for easy access to inspect.
Now every once in a while, a lifter can get stuck down. The plunger-check valve can be cleaned, and put back in, IF cam and lifter faces are good.

Sorry for not giving much information. I installed new 302 heads so I also installed new comp cam lifters and new push rods. The heads were rebuilt with new springs to match the new comp cam extreme. One of the lifters collapsed within an hour of break in. Yes, new timing chain and sprockets were installed. Also new water pump and timing chain cover with new seals. Since then I have heard that every thing that comp cam produces is trash so I am pulling all of the lifters and replacing them with new lifters that have been soaking in oil for the last week. I heard I can pull them without pulling the head or the intake which BTW is Edelbrock performer and Edelbrock 1406 Carb. All new fel-pro gaskets, which are not cheap. So that's why I am asking if I can get them thru the open spaces on the heads. The lifters have less than 2 hours on them and I would like to pull them and see what's going on. I asked the mechanic that installed them if he cleaned them in mineral spirits and he said no so its probably something minimal and I can take it apart in fix it for later but I have not figured out how the hell to compress one of these little bastards so that I can take it apart. Easier to just remove and replace and then troubleshoot at a later date.

 

[Fordication]

With a very good magnet I have been able to replace lifters without pulling the intake , just fishing them out through the access between ports , if the lifters are old varnish may make this difficult or impossible but worth a try .

Brand new with less than two hours on them.

 

[Fordication]

For pulling a lifter through the head, I have a KD lifter tool. Expandable barbs to catch the snap ring groove.

View attachment 156863

View attachment 156864

Just ordered one from ebay. It will be here by Friday which works out for Saturday.

 

[Xcudame]

I know people claim it's OK to pre-soak lifters, but I never do. They'll get lots of oil very quickly at start up.

The lifter puller through the heads should work, but worst case you will need to pull the intake manifold only. And new lifters will require camshaft break in like a normal break in procedure of running the engine for around 15 minutes at 2500-3000rpm.

 

[Mr Cuda]

Are all the lifters slightly ticking?
Do you have adjustable rockers?
Could be lifter preload, or lack of.

 

[Fordication]

Are all the lifters slightly ticking?
Do you have adjustable rockers?
Could be lifter preload, or lack of.

No, just the one that caved in was causing back fire back thru the carb.

 

[Fordication]

Well I finally got time to take out the lifters. So we were wrong. 302 Heads do not have a large enough hole to pull the lifters out. So I did have to pull the intake and here are the items I found starting with the first issue. I found a wadded up blue paper towel wrapped up inside of the last valve well on the right side. I then found that the lifter I was trying to get out on the other side was destroyed and the comp cam lobe in that position was also destroyed. I found that 3 of the lifters on the left side had play in them which means I could actually push then in a bit, the one that was destroyed went all the way in. Here are the photos. Please tell me what happened. Not to mention would that rag stuck under my intake cause any of that and do I have recourse with the mechanic? I am upset because I could have done all of this work myself and none of this would have happened. What could destroy a lifter and a cam with less than an hour of running? Did the failed lifter destroy the cam. Did the rag in my valve train cause the damage? I am at a loss. BTW, having these guys install this cam, lifters, timing chain, heads, etc. cost me $5500. The last photo is a photo of my cam thrust plate. When they returned the parts to me, this came with it. If not installed, would this have destroyed my cam?

 

[Xcudame]

The photos on the lifters don't appear to have been rotating! That would have been easy to tell when installing them as I also make sure they spin by hand! That and the rag really makes me think you need to "lawyer up". If a piece of the rag got stuck between the lifter(s) and the lifter hole(s), it would likely keep the lifter(s) from spinning and destroy like you're seeing! Yikes!

 

[pschlosser]

is that severely worn lifter on the exhaust port of cylinder #8? and the rag was found behind the exhaust pushrod of #7 on the other side?

the "breaking in" step, of the lifters with the camshaft, is an area I've been hearing people are having trouble with, again and again with their engine rebuilds... but only in the last 15 years or so. It is unclear if the materials are changing, ie. using chinese steel with different carbon content then USA or Japan makes, or knowledge and procedure for proper break-in is being lost.

now finding a rag in there, presuming it's paper and the lifters were installed and before the paper was present, it's unclear to me if that caused any issues. were it to prevent a lifter (it's touching) from spinning, my instinct is it's unlikely, but possible. if lifter bore tolerances were tight to begin with, maybe the cellulose in the paper could cause that.

if the lifters aren't freely spinning on assembly, or if one or more of them doesn't spin on initial startup.... it only takes a few minutes operating that way for the lifter to begin getting a slight groove, minimizing a spin even further.

regardless, the rag is bad form. further, the lifters not spinning is on the builder, even if the customer did the break in. presuming, the customer didn't accidentally start it up dry of oil.

an hour of run time on the new engine, is that right? well, that lifter with the deep groove must not have been getting much oil, because that kind of wear looks pretty severe, to me.

hopefully, your valvetrain and heads are in still good shape. but a new camshaft and lifters are not on the list of parts.

 

[Fordication]

is that severely work lifter on the exhaust port of cylinder #8? and the rag was found behind the exhaust pushrod of #7 on the other side?

the "breaking in" step, of the lifters with the camshaft, is an area I've been hearing people are having trouble with, again and again with their engine rebuilds... but only in the last 15 years or so. It is unclear if the materials are changing, ie. using chinese steel with different carbon content then USA or Japan makes, or knowledge and procedure for proper break-in is being lost.

now finding a rag in there, presuming it's paper and the lifters were installed and before the paper was present, it's unclear to me if that caused any issues. were it to prevent a lifter (it's touching) from spinning, my instinct is it's unlikely, but possible. if lifter bore tolerances were tight to begin with, maybe the cellulose in the paper could cause that.

if the lifters aren't freely spinning on assembly, or if one or more of them doesn't spin on initial startup.... it only takes a few minutes operating that way for the lifter to begin getting a slight groove, minimizing a spin even further.

regardless, the rag is bad form. further, the lifters not spinning is on the builder, even if the customer did the break in. presuming, the customer didn't accidentally start it up dry of oil.

an hour of run time on the new engine, is that right? well, that lifter with the deep groove must not have been getting much oil, because that kind of wear looks pretty severe, to me.

hopefully, your valvetrain and heads are in still good shape. but a new camshaft and lifters are not on the list of parts.

Yeah. I am in the market for new camshaft. Already have a new set of lifters. I looked at the old ones that came out and they are in great condition after 40K miles. Only wear is on the top where the rod rolled in them. Not to mention you could not push them down no matter how hard you tried. These comp cam lifters pushed all the way down like they have no spring in them.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Comp is always a bad choice for Mopars but people always by from comp first as if there were no other cam companies out there

 

[Xcudame]

Go with a Howard's camshaft. You can get one around $250 in just about any lift you want. And use lots of camshaft assembly lube. And check each lifter hole for fitment.

 

[Fordication]

Comp is always a bad choice for Mopars but people always by from comp first as if there were no other cam companies out there

As I have learned. Not buying another comp cam and for sure no lifters.

 

[mrmopar340]

Call Mancini. They are 100% Mopar parts people.

 

[Ricks72Chlgr440]

That engine was oil starved. Look at the cam and valley. They are dry, very dry. The fact that the cam thrust plate was not installed caused all the oil pressure to bleed off thru the front galley holes instead of the rest of the engine. That engine must come out and be torn down now. Likely bearings are shot besides all the metal from the cam and lifters going everywhere. Ugly situation.

Document everything and at least consider contacting an attorney. Small claims court in your state may have a limit on how much you can claim, but it's gonna cost you bucks to get that engine right at this point.

 

[Xcudame]

Yes, if the cam thrust plate was left off (they gave it to you separately?), then all the oil will just go back into the oil pan bypassing the heads, lifters and cam. Path of least resistance for fluid flow.