WIW - Is this 70 six pac car thats missing drivetrain worthy to get involved ?

[440WB]

WIW - Is this 70 six pac car thats missing the complete drivetrain worthy to get involved ?

Your Help with Opinions are appreciated !

Ive attempted to get the options for this car with posting ' Build Sheet read out '
in another post - Thanks to our members - it shows strong on the read out options

1970 440 - 6 Auto - Shaker - Dana - rubber bumpers FE5 magnum wheels Power Disk Brakes
The Good - is the build sheet - vin tag - Interior is decent condition is all there ( is apart )
body numbers ( are not very deep stamped ) October 69 Build Date

car has some/most parts - needing restore with rust repair - No Fender Tag
Has 1985 Licence Plate - judging by the condition as she sits its been in storage for a long time.
has Aftermarket Ansens 5 slot wheels with Poly glass tires almost new -

Front Grille in good condition with chrome trim ( missing driver headlight light surround )
tail lights nice condition with tail panel surround chrome trim - Tinted Windows all around -

Car shows previous repairs - a piece of 12" driver side frame with tortion bar cut
and weld - maybe a floor section cut out - undercarriage is rust pitted ( hard to tell what
has to be changed ) Interior floors are Heavy Paint coated over rust pitting -

Hard to see with car tucked in the corner of the pole barn
with no lights - owner will not roll it out or put it on jacks for pictures -
HIS STORY IS - CAR WAS IN ACCIDENT WITH SHOP REPAIRS OF DRIVER SIDE IN EARLY 80's-
Red is painted over with Orange -

The Bad - No Shaker Hood - missing rubber bumpers and brackets No Motor No Trans No Dana
no Radiator - has 8 3/4 is rolling

inner fender shows no screw holes for fender tag

I know this is a hard to find valuble project - when complete
my investment would be the cost of the car plus at least $35k of parts -
I would perform all the labor with body work + paint
I have an early 70 six pac motor needing the top end carbs +air cleaner + shaker

If I get into this - would be at least a year of my time to then enjoy for abit -
ultimately will be selling in the end project
( as my sons with wife would not want it in the long run if something was to happen to me )
they really want me to buy a modern challenger -

LOOKING FOR YOUR HONEST OPINIONS

 

[NixDad]

i think the car is very valuable, when completed.
A lot depends on what pieces you have. Some may be harder to acquire, so are you OK with the wait?
With a BC sheet, i would get a fender tag made. i don't think anyone would criticize as you have the original data.

 

[440WB]

I agree with you if I am able to acquire the car if it hasn’t been sold yet, I would most definitely have a fender tag made in the exact order since the build sheet is real

 

[413]

You and we don’t know the cars problems, yet. Because the biggest problem is the owner that won’t pull it outside to look at it.

bring over a stack of cash and see if he will pul it out.

he may be hiding something or he may not want the tire kickers wasting his time.

 

[440WB]

When I showed up, I did have the cash he is not budging off the price in fact, as we were talking, he told me after I looked at it for 20 minutes. The price just went up five more thousand

I can’t believe after driving almost 3 hours the attitude that this guy had
He is a youngster with a little bit of knowledge. I don’t think he has any hands-on experience at all except for removing the parts as he said

 

[413]

I guess we need to know if it’s priced low, or at market value. Walk away from this deal, next time it will be +$5000 again.

the cash is to show you are serious.

 

[moparleo]

If you are looking for an investment, walk away.
All the original stuff that makes it different ( original driveline) and such are gone.
Not much better than buying any other 70 and just adding the parts. Originality gets the money, not just a build sheet.
Restoration final cost is usually 3 times what you originally thought.
And you don't even know for sure what you would be buying .
Whenever someone is selling something of value, and they don't let you fully examine it, RED flag.
What is he hiding or afraid of if it is legit ?
A perfect fender tag that is most likely custom made . Who knows if the info on it is real? Only the original what tell you that. If you had the original part/s And the replacement part/s, at least you would know if the info was real and not just put there to increase the value.
Would you consider buying anything else under the same terms ? Beware of the words "trust me".
An old saying that is always true " Trust...but verify."
Listen to the little voice telling you that something is not right.

 

[Steve340]

From what I read Shaker cars could not also have AC. With the Shaker in place no room to mount the AC compressor.

 

[pschlosser]

If you are looking for an investment, walk away. All the original stuff that makes it different and are gone.

@moparleo's definition of "original" suggests it must be the actual original part that came on that specific car, from the factory. No substitutions. Not any. Ever. Maybe that's not what he's saying, but that's how I read it.

My definition of "original" is what did the car came from the factory with (via the document fender tag and build sheet), and does it appear those parts are still installed on the car, be it the very original parts, or originals from another vehicle.

In most cases, one cannot tell if a given original part was the very one that came on THAT car, or another just like it.

What would make this restored car valuable is the options matching the build sheet and fender tag.

If I had my pick when choosing a car to restore, I would want to restore an original that may have some decent value when I'm finished.

Of course, the base cost of THIS vehicle may not be worth it, but the vehicle is definitely worth restoring to factory original, imo.

IMO, you're not going to find many documented original 440-6 Cudas for under 35K, regardless what it's missing.

 

[Steve340]

I get suspicious of people who put the price up and will not give you a fair go when it comes to viewing what you are buying. If you buy off them - they win you lose.
My 2 cents.
Walk there are plenty of honest folks selling cars.

 

[moparleo]

Original means that, original. Not from another car. Of course unless it is a "survivor" consumable parts like filters, plugs, wires etc don't count. But a car that has the engine, trans, rear axle that came from the factory is much more desirable than those parts from other cars.
There is no doubt about its provenance. Value is determined by just these factors.
If the parts are all replacement parts what difference will a build sheet have. Might as well build it as you like.
1) unrestored, original survivor. miles and condition and desirable options determine value.
2) Professionally Restored to O.E. standards, with all original driveline and lunch box parts to replace any unrestorable, original parts. Desirable options again determine value.
3) Professionally Restored to O.E. standards using N.O.S.parts ( not always the same as assembly line installed) but with original driveline. May have replacement sheet metal.
4) Restored using aftermarket parts, replacement sheet metal, non matching driveline, may not have exactly what matches the original build sheet. Not restored to O.E. standards.
5) Daily driver.
The value may increase 2 fold for each increase in standards.
Just like a coin. Rare coins values increase exponentially with each increase in grade. But once you "clean" a rare coin, its desirability and value can drop 80-90%.
It is only original once.

 

[pschlosser]

The price just went up five more thousand

I can’t believe after driving almost 3 hours the attitude that this guy had...

It's perfectly fine for the seller to realize as he's selling it, and getting responses, that his asking price is too low. He should be allowed to raise the price if he wants. If I were he, I would want this option.

But if he's gonna jerk me around like that, especially after a lengthy car ride, I might be inclined to "accidentally" knock over the mailbox post at the end of the drive on my way out.

 

[pschlosser]

Original means that, original. Not from another car.

I hear you. I don't agree we need so many variations in the definition of "factory original", but I'm not telling you what is what.

I'm satisfied with the "factory original" to mean "the car has what it was supposed to come with from the factory."

Anything one cannot prove DIDN"T come with that very specific part from the factory, there is no sense in stressing out about it.

"Numbers matching" is something else. When the engine numbers don't match, then we know. But throw in another alternator (for example), with the same part number, because the prior one blew up... as far as I'm concerned (because it may be nigh impossible to prove otherwise) that is still factory original.

If the parts are all replacement parts what difference will a build sheet have. Might as well build it as you like.

I don't agree. I hope that's okay. For those who may convert a Barracuda 318 convertible into a hemi car, it sure as heck would matter to me what the broadcast sheets say in ascertaining its value and worth. I don't care how accurate a job someone may do, if its not documented, it isn't original.

 

[Challenger RTA]

Here's long and short of it. IF it sound to good to be true it probably is !!!

 

[DetMatt1]

From what I read Shaker cars could not also have AC. With the Shaker in place no room to mount the AC compressor.

That’s the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[440WB]

From what I read Shaker cars could not also have AC. With the Shaker in place no room to mount the AC compressor. Quote -
-------------------------------------------------------------
so then the read on the options is wrong from the build sheet from the other post I had -

My bad -

was going off of what the others had said on the sheet was reading max cooling ?

Ive never been too good about reading those codes - other than what I find on the Template at ebodies.org -

 

[440WB]

I just edited - re - done the ad to remove the A/C

I feel like I owe this FORUM an apology for
the wrong info about this car -

 

[413]

It’s ok, we all make a mistake. interesting thread.

you can’t get AC with:
multiple carbs
shaker
440 4bbl 4 speed E or B body
A32 4.10 Dana with automatic trans 1969-1971

 

[moparleo]

Original is not a replacement part from Autozone. My meaning of all the important parts are missing eg.original engine, transmission, differential, rubber bumpers, shaker hood and parts, etc.
Big difference in value between the original factory parts and aftermarket.
Just ask someone who has done a true restoration and searched for years (time) for proper factory parts and paid big $$$ for those parts.
Difference between a 50k car and a 150K car.
The guy that will come out ahead is the guy who just buys a complete car, because the restorer never gets the true value of money and time back when they have to do a lot of part hunting, restoration, body, paint etc when they sell it.
In the end it is worth what the buyer and seller agree on. No book for that as each car, restoration is unique.
A white car is usually less valuable than say a Purple car.

 

[Steve340]

No need to apologise 440WB. The best thing about the forum is access to good objective info.
If the car is serious money it makes sense to ask questions.
I only commented about the AC thing not to cut you down - I assumed it was a sales line from the seller and just wanted to let you know those two options could not be had on the same car.
Some people tell you all sorts of **** to justify stupid money for their VERY RARE car.