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I’m thinking of a cam swap. Give me your opinions.

Bobby Sixkiller

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I ordered the mopar purple cam. It’s the one I wanted anyway. I was just being cheap. Lol. If I wanted cheap I’d drive a Chevy. Shame. Shame. Summit had one in stock. Mancini was cheaper but none in stock. Since the timing set is three bolt anyway I just ordered what I wanted. Saves buy another timing chain set.
 

Ted70challenger

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I’ve bought several cams over the years . Only once did one make me happy . It was a Mopar performance purple shaft 533 lift 320 duration. And man that’s a big cam . That thing was the beast . It didn’t even smooth out until 2500 rpm . I had a rev limiter set to 7000 rpm and that cam felt like it would keep going on . Just saying
 

Rob C

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There surprisingly very good and powerful cams even back in the day. For what everyone likes to trash as old tech. They’ll get the job very well.
 

Bobby Sixkiller

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C77ADE83-409D-4CAD-A8C7-C6F72B72EE21.jpeg
This is the one I picked. Should do what I want.
 

crackedback

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What's the idle tune up? If you don't have at least 16 initial timing, it's not going to run well at idle. If you say it's got X total timing, that may be a bunch of the issue.

Might save you time and money if the tune is off. Just a suggestion.
 

Bobby Sixkiller

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Regardless of total timing. It should idle ok anywhere from 5 to 20 degrees. Shouldn’t it? It won’t even run at 0. My total timing is 34 degrees and the initial is 12. All in at 2100. It will idle good at 900 rpm. Setting it any lower it doesn’t want to run in gear. I really think it should idle in gear better than it does. My roadrunner has a 284 484 purple shaft but 10 to 1 compression. It idles way better than this one does. At 750 rpm. I think it’s either the grind or it’s degreed wrong. I’ve adjusted the carb correctly. By ear. With a vacuum gauge and with a digital hand held tach. Brand new 650 Holley. If I advance the timing any more then that it surged at cruise like a vacuum leak. Found zero vacuum leaks using chemtool spraying around the intake carb and under the intake best I could. Remember this is a stock 8 to 1 motor home engine. With a cam. The same grind can be had in 350 Chevy.
 

crackedback

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Try 18-20 and see what happens. You'll have to bust open the distributor to limit mechanical so your total number isn't out of bounds. On a street car, total timing method is a horrible way to set up the ignition. On a race car that sees pretty much only full throttle, fine, street driver no way.

Stock 318's like 10-12 initial timing, you have a much larger cam and are at the same level. That's not going to make for a happy idle profile. Think of this as building a house. Total timing is the roof, initial/idle is the slab. If the slab is fubar'd, the rest of the build is going to need adjustments/crutches to get the roof line square.

Simple test. Get the engine warmed up and idling. Give the dist a tweak clockwise... if the engine picked up rpm, it wants the advance. My guess, a xe274 in a low compression engine is going to want 18-24* initial timing. It should idle at 800-850 with minimal drop when pulled into gear. If you are getting a large drop in RPM pulling into gear, that's another indicator of insufficient initial timing or dropping timing out from reduction in RPM.

Put a light on it, have somewhere pull the car in gear and see if the timing is reduced in gear from where it idles in P/N. That is an issue. You want the timing at idle to remain the same in gear and out of gear. This pops up a lot when idle speeds are around/above 900 or so with a lot of distributors with light springs in them.
 

Bobby Sixkiller

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Ok it definitely idles way up when I advance the distributor. But then it goes way advanced when it’s sped up. So I need to limit the advance in the distributor. I’ll pull it apart in a bit and go from there.
 

crackedback

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At idle when you twist in advance and it speeds up, reset the idle speed back to the 800-900 area. If you just allow the engine to rpm higher, then you get the whammy of mechanical advance entering the picture which you DO NOT want when doing this test. If it picks up 50-100rpm, reset and add again. I should have written that part too. Got a little ahead of myself. This will allow you to find what the engine wants for initial timing.

Lots of low initial timing set ups smell like a fuel tanker leaking gas all over the street out the exhaust. More initial timing cleans this up and allows for a better idle tune.

I fixed a ton of cars over the years that were pigs down low with this approach, including low compression stuff that nobody said would run. 8:1 360 with a 292 or 284/484 cam, not a great setup until you set it up right! Go from bogging can't hardly turn a tire to smoke show tire killers. It's ALL in the tune up and the MP book is WAY off base and has been since the day it was written for a street car.
 

crackedback

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If that cam card is correct, you went from 230 at .050 cam to a 228 at .050 cam... that's nothing except it on a 115 LSA which is meh. That 115 lsa is NOT going to help with low rpm power at all, in fact it closes the intake REALLY late.

Tuning it cost you nothing but some time. And it will run a TON better with that comp cam than that MP stick.

Run MUCH bigger cams than that comp cams stick in low compression 340-360-440's. 284/484, 292, 528/557/590 mechanicals. It's all in the tune up and installed centerline.
 

Bobby Sixkiller

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Ok so what’s the best way to keep the total timing at 34. I’m thinking fill in the weights travel slot some so it doesn’t advance as far.
 

crackedback

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crackedback

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Get the idle tune squared away and see if the response when you crack the throttle isn't snappier. Then order a plate and limit the mechanical timing. I'd start around 18-20 initial from past experience with those cams and set ups. Reset the idle and mixture screws using a vacuum gauge. You could even set the initial with the vacuum gauge similar to the way suggested earlier about giving the dist a clockwise twist. When vacuum stops increasing at same idle speed, stop and back off the distributor maybe 2 degrees. See where it fall on the timing. That would be a realative spot the engine likes best.

You might be able to return the cam... :)

The guy that taught me this stuff in the late 70's was a engineer/racer and used to tell me, "see all those manuals over there... they are full numbers that have zero use in the real world of performance." The tune up numbers from about 1967 on are crutched for smog/emissions and not pure performance. The 426 Hemi tune up numbers were crutched. He had a 71 Roadrunner that he showed me how crutched the numbers were. The car barely turned the tire when in stock tune. With his tune up, it was pretty stout for a stock 383 car. He disliked the MP tune up suggestions as well and that example clearly explained why.
 
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