Rallye cluster in a standard dash frame?

[Righty Tighty]

Hello all, I have a 74 Barracuda with a 70 rallye dash that’s badly cracked. I bought a used 71-up Challenger standard dash thinking I could just swap clusters to make it a Rallye dash.

After removing the standard cluster in the Challenger dash, I noticed the mounts are very different than the Rallye cluster. I thought I could remove the cluster frame that’s mounted to the dash, but it’s spot welded to the dash frame.

I’m thinking I have two options: mount the good dash pad to my 70 frame, or buy completely new. What do you guys think?

 

[oneof52]

If you are doing something that will be in full view, do it right. If your Rallye instruments are in good shape, get the correct dash

 

[pschlosser]

... get the correct dash

Wait, what?

Both types of instrument cluster (standard or rallye) bolt into the dash - in 1970, at least. The wiring within the dash is a little different between these two clusters, but either one bolts in.

Each type of cluster has their own bezels and silver-colored frame, but both cluster frames can be attached to the dash.

Also, few of the instrument parts are interchangeable between the two types of clusters.

@Righty, do you know which type of cluster your car came with originally? I wonder because of the wiring within your dash pad. Is the wiring harness inside the dash of the same type for the cluster it's supposed to have?

Regardless what the car came with, if it were me, I would be inclined to put the matching type of cluster to the wiring inside the dash. Even if it doesn't match the car's fender tag. At least, it should go in easy with minimal issues to resolve.

If it ends up being a standard wire harness, and you want a rallye dash, then at least you know you must also hunt down the wiring, when searching for a better replacement cluster.

 

[Righty Tighty]

Okay, I'm an idiot.

The I just looked at the rallye dash already installed in the car, and noticed the cluster has sort of a "spacer" that stands the bezel out from the cluster body. That's what was throwing me off.

I'm going to use all the usable parts from my existing rallye assembly and mount it to the new, "better" dash. That means I have the heater control already.

Regarding the harness, that's about 50% of why I'm replacing the dash. The dash looks like garbage, and the harness is so hacked up that I've been having electrical problems ever since I bought the car. I figured I might as well buy a new harness and wire it to the replacement dash while it's out of the car, then install it.

 

[rklein71]

I put in a 72-74 rally cluster to replace a standard cluster in my 71 Barracuda. Yes, there were several changes to the harness, but they really are very simple changes.

 

[EW1BH27]

I converted from standard to rally too. Needed a wire from the coil for the tach, spliced a blue wire from the oil lamp for the oil gauge and replaced the oil sending unit with one for the gauge.

 

[ZippyZoo]

I agree. Not a tough conversion from standard to rallye. Assuming your car came with the rallye dash, it should already have the 3 speed wiper motor, 3 speed switch, linkage and electric washer pump. I believe 72-74 3 speed motors and switch are different from 70-71.

 

[pschlosser]

I figured I might as well buy a new harness and wire it to the replacement dash while it's out of the car, then install it.

If you're buying a newish repro harness, go ahead and buy the rallye dash version, to save you any splicing and patching.

 

[Righty Tighty]

I already have the new harness, and it is indeed a rallye harness. Thanks!

I considered just going through the old harness and fixing the problems, but after 50 years of who-knows-who doing who-knows-what to it, I decided to just start from scratch. Just from what I can see by laying under the dash, there are countless hack splices, uninsulated wire, etc. It's really bad.

So, who knows if it is even the correct harness for the dash/cluster combo? Bite the bullet and buy new.

 

[pschlosser]

The wires can get pretty brittle and begin to crack just by handling the harness, in some cases. It really depends on the exposure, I guess.

A new harness will make the project much easier with a minimal troubleshooting afterwards.

 

[EW1BH27]

More of my 2 cents worth, basically just a reminder.

 

[Righty Tighty]

More of my 2 cents worth, basically just a reminder.

View attachment 107681

Maybe a reminder for most, but I’m still learning so thanks for that. Happy to know I at least have the correct sending unit (even though the gauge doesn’t currently work).

 

[rklein71]

My wires that were taped up were all in good shape, the insulation was still very pliable and not cracked. I did have to replace some exposed wires but I did inspect every inch of wire and connectors.

 

[Challenger RTA]

As rklein 71 posted I did the same. The only thing different it did was to remove the amp gauge wires from the harness. Because they are the problem of most melted and shorted wires.Even if I bought a new harness and wanted to keep the amp gauge in use.I would cut the battery feed at the bulkhead connector replace connector, and place it out side the harness. It should pull out or don't use it,or place an other one there. 10 or 8 Gauge directly to the battery with a fuse able link or beaker.Think about it 1000 amp battery feed always HOT.
I also removed the alternator feed to amp gauge from splice one. And the headlight feed,That requires other rewiring. don't do unless you know what to do. The back of the fuse box shown here,observe there are 2 red wires feeding battery side of fuse box and a black wire.
I did this in preparation of eliminating the amp gauge and other wiring preference. All the above is my opinion and preference from experience. Do as you prefer.

 

[Righty Tighty]

I should be getting to wiring the new harness pretty soon, I'll keep in mind those changes. I know there's a member on FABO who makes headlight forward harnesses for A-bodies, does he makes them for E-bodies?

And what is the reason for rewiring the headlight feed?

I wish my wiring was savable like @rklein71 , but it's pretty bad. It's not necessarily cracked insulation, but all of the poorly done splices, connectors that go nowhere, bare wire twisted together at random places.

 

[Challenger RTA]

Not fussed. melted dimmer switch. do a head light relay circuit when you can.

 

[Challenger RTA]

I thought I had a picture of my dimmer sw plug melted. Here's one from a 72 cuda. Top right just right of white plug. the dimmer sw wires were all taped together.
By all means replace the harness if you fill you have to I'm not saying not to. just be aware of the legacy problems.

This is for reference. This is splice one. I have never seen a problem with it. It's a very good connection.

 

[Righty Tighty]

That's how the FABO member makes his harnesses -- they are relayed. Got one for my Scamp and it was top notch. Actually, I see he's here as well:

Plug and Play headlight relay kits

And thanks for the tips.

 

[Challenger RTA]

Thanks for posting the link others may not know of it. I was able to do my own in front of the battery with a aftermarket fuse box. For headlights fog light and and aircraft landing light.

 

[EW1BH27]

I know there's a member on FABO who makes headlight forward harnesses for A-bodies, does he makes them for E-bodies?

Yes he does and he’s a member here too - crackedback. He hasn’t been very active here though. His kits are plug and play to the existing harness, no cutting/splicing.

I believe the idea behind it is to take the high load from the bulkhead connector. I’m seriously considering his kit for my Barracuda.