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VIN Discrepancy?

Lawrence Shaw

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Hi guys, I am looking at a 70 Cuda, and the build date per the fender tag is A30 (October 30 1969) Tag does look real. There is no build sheet and the door sticker is a repro (I think). So The vin sequence begins 322XXXX which seems as if the car should had been built well into 1970. Am I correct on this?

I recently sold an AAR with a 311 build date and and the Vin started 277XXXX
 

Xcudame

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With Chrysler you can never say never on a lot of things, but 322XXXX would be kind of high for an October 30, 1969 build date. Have you seen the title by chance?
 

MoparCarGuy

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At Hamtramck, the A30 (October 30, 1969) Scheduled Production Date for 1970 Barracuda/Cuda began with the upper half of 171xxx and went into the 173xxx VIN sequence numbers.
The 322xxx started on 429 (April 29, 1970) and built thru 322999 the same day.
 

Xcudame

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Wow! MoparCarGuy, that means something nefarious going on! Why can't people just be honest? The truth will come out eventually! Lawrence, doesn't look good!
 

pschlosser

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maybe it means something nefarious. there isn't enough detail to know for sure. faking a VIN is not easy, but it IS possible. and anyone trying would be an idiot not to choose a number in the correct range. don't be too quick to presume impropriety.
 

Xcudame

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Pschlosser, True, but from what data we've been given, it doesn't look good. That's why I inquired about the title. And unfortunately, there are a lot of idiots out there. I just like to think that most of us Mopar guys aren't stupid. :) We know our cars better than anyone.
 

Challenger RTA

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Decoding of Fender Tag: Bottom to Top, Left to Right



CodeDescription
E65383-4 Barrel Roadrunner / Superbee
D21Heavy Duty 4-Speed Manual Transmission
JS23J = Dodge Challenger
S = Special
23 = 2 Door Hardtop

N1BN = 383 300HP 1-4BBL 8 CYL
1 = 1971
B = Dodge Main, Hamtramck, MI, USA
342***Sequence Number '342***
GY3Paint Code: Citra Yella
H6X9Trim Grade/Style/Color
H = High
6 = Vinyl Bucket Seats
X9 = Black
000Upper Door Frame: Full Door Panel
329 Date Built: 3 / 29 / 1971
042591Order Number: 042591
V1XRoof Type OR Color: Full Vinyl Top - Black
UUnknown At This Time
A44Dodge Rear Window Louver Package
A45Spoiler Package - Front & Rear
C16Console w/ Buckets
C55Bucket Seats
G36Left Hand Remote, Right Hand Manual Outside Mirror
J253 Speed Variable Wipers
J54Sport Hood 70-1
J68Rear Window Louvers
J78240km Speedometer
J81Rear Spoiler - Wing Type 70-2
M21Roof Drip Rail Moldings
N41Duel Exhaust w/o Tips
N42Chrome Duel Exhaust Tips
N85Tachometer
R35AM / FM Multiplex Sterio
V6XBlack Longitude Sports Stripe
EN2End of Codes Assembly Line 2
 

pschlosser

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I think we all agree that A30 and 322XXX don't jive!
I agree. I wish I could see an image of the fender tag to judge for myself. A "4" instead of an "A" seems a better fit. an SPD of 430 jives better with the 322XXX VIN

edit: The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced the SPD was misread as A30 instead of 430. They can look really similar on an aged messy fender tag
 

Challenger RTA

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Fender Tag
1970_plymouth_barracuda_IMG-20230709-WA0006-27536.jpg
 
Last edited:

Lawrence Shaw

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So the radiator support, the cowl stamping the vin on the dash and door sticker all match. Waiting to see the title. Is it a possibility that the build date on the fender tag stamped in error? I know in the GM world the protecto plates have errors in them sometimes.
 

Xcudame

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It's certainly possible. And both October 30, 1969 and April 30, 1970 were Thursdays. April 30th matches the 322XXX better for sure. Hopefully the title helps answer the question.
 

pschlosser

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I'm convinced the A30 is legit, and not a 430 as I pitched in post #13.

I have another proposition for this oddity - Slow Payment. The SPD is a "planned" production date, not an actual one. Emphasis on "planned."

When the car is ordered and down payment made at the dealer, I understand the dealer orders the car from Chrysler Corp, and when the car and its options are keyed in to the Chrysler IBM mainframe computer system at the plant, the SPD is calculated. A30 puts this event somewhere near the start of the production year, about Oct 30, 1969.

Side note: A12 and A13 are pretty common SPDs, because dealers tended to order a batch of cars up-front near the start of the model year, with standard options for their showroom floors. I have not confirmed these cars were shipped prior to payment (on credit to the dealer.)

VIN number sequences are assigned on the assembly line, not prior. Generally, the VINs are sequential as the vehicles proceed through the assembly line. So the latter sequence part of the VIN does not get assigned UNTIL its rolling through the assembly line.

Other events may cause a delay in actual production. Among them are parts availability at the plant. But another is delayed payment in full. I believe (unconfirmed) the dealer has some control over when a car is produced, and held back when it isn't paid for.

If the customer-owner took months to pay for their car in full, it seams reasonable it did not roll through the assembly line until much later, perhaps as late as May 1970, as some have suggested. The more "special" the client, the longer the vehicle may have been held in limbo before actual production.

I believe I've seen broadcast sheets and fender tags showing as few as 6 days from the time the car is ordered to when it rolls through the assembly line. But these pics indicate 2-4 weeks between SPD and actual PD.

6247859-3A272482.jpg
6247863-3A272482mylar.jpg


I recall other examples where the car was but a few days EARLY! So the bottom line is, SPD is a planned date, not an actual one.

Regarding the potential for error, where the A30 was supposed to be 430, I have my doubts. This is not something a data-entry human would normally be typing in manually, and/or potentially mis-reading on a document. I suspect the SPD is calculated by software when the order is keyed in to the computer. The fender tags were printed by a computerized system, so there again, the fender tag stamping operator would not really have the option to introduce human error and screw this up.
 

Xcudame

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And Y05 proves it was a special order car. So perhaps Pschlosser's theory is sound. Somebody got short on money. We all know what that is like.
 

Deathproofcuda

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And Y05 proves it was a special order car. So perhaps Pschlosser's theory is sound. Somebody got short on money. We all know what that is like.

But wouldn't the date on the door sticker reflect the actual build date, instead of the SPD? The date on the door sticker for this car is 11-1969.
 
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